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I know all the not-stupids already know it but it bears repeating:
When we say Israel is a shitty genocide committer, we mean the Israeli government--Netanyahu and all his cunty supporters. Not all the normal people who live there who hate the shit as much as anyone else.
It is important to note that the government had majority approval. The settlers annexing the Westbank was continuud by every single government of the past 30 years, even the "progressive" ones. The relentless attacks on Gaza had and have majority approval in polls.
Removing Netanyahu is a first step, but Israeli society seriously needs to work through a lot of things for its "normal" to become in accordance with international law and basic principles of ethics and moral.
49.5% of the voters voted for the current government.
Which "progressive" government did Israel have in the last 30 years?
Barak and especially Rabin's government stopped the settlements.
Olmert had the "realignment plan", which was shelved due to the 2nd Lebanon war.
The trouble is that the left, while otherwise staying lefties (something something pudding prices), swallowed the right's idea of how to provide security whole-sale some time after Rabin's assassination, the period of defiance, "now even more peace even harder" was all to short-lived. Quoth the Haaretz, Yigal Amir won.
Pair that with just not wanting to see. Saw an interview with Israeli journalists, they were talking about how they were reporting about what the IDF and settlers were up to in the West Bank, they tried to do a bit of Gaza, but it's all too easy to switch channels to a programme that doesn't make you think and feel uncomfortable things. That, broadly speaking, is the culpability the broader Israeli public will have to come to terms with, that, if they hadn't been that passive, the Kahanites wouldn't have had the freedom to do it.
Or, differently put: We need pictures of the heads of sniped Palestinian children on the wailing wall.
To be fair the voters for the current govt had no idea they were going to go full blown genocide, when they carry their votes
this is still 49% too many.
If only more people in Israel believed this and spoke up the way these people do.
I think you really don't understand Israelis.
They have the exact same problem we have:
A slim majority are professional, want peace, and would probably accept the 48 borders.
But their politics are dominated by the insanely zealous religious right and settlers who want to exterminate everyone who isn't their brand of Judaism, and whose definition of "Greater Israel" goes far beyond the borders of Palestine, as commanded by their god.
Hamas's attack terrified and silenced the majority and left the psychos in charge.
Read the Old Testament, you can see the war between the priest class who believe God wants them to rule everyone, and everyone else who knows they go way too far.
Our Talibangelicals have so much in common with them.
I agree with you on most of what you said. That being said America's problem isn't that the "good" ones are a minority. It's that they are made a minority due to the mechanics and inner workings of the electoral college. If i were to tske this war as example, over 2/3rds of Americans want to enforce a ceasefire. Israel on the other hand, has an actual majority saying this war is good and the Palestinians need to die. My original comment was simply saying that I wish there were more people in Israel willing to speak up and fight back against this. But majority of the protestors are only protesting for the hostages to be back or to stabilize the economy. They don't care about the human rights violations their country does on a daily basis. And why should they? Their entire existence is predicated on it and they benefit from it greatly. These are some of the few protestors actually protesting the right things.
I agree.
The system is broken because the minority wanted it designed broken: https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-10-02-0065
They wanted a way to launder the votes of their slaves and this worked.
The real problem is that a sane majority will lose to a fanatic minority every single time. The only counterexample I can see is the American civil war, and it was close.
Us sane people simply have too much meaningful shit to worry about, which is why we didn't care about civil rights until the 60s.
Once the terror has died down in Israel there's a chance we can have a discussion, but I doubt it, the right will take credit, their narrative is that the weak opposition couldn't do what was necessary, therefore they must keep power for the good of Israel.
And nobody will fight them because they are fucking insane, last time they assassinated the PM, Bibi himself got power for inciting that.
You can't fight crazy, you get hurt and they get aroused.
I'm not saying there's no solution, I'm saying there's no simple or easy solution.
Talibangelicalots?
Talibangelical cats. Like Rumtumtugger, Mr. Mistoffelees, and the Nefarious Netanyahu.
The majority of non Arab Israelis is both in favor of the settler annexations and the slaughter in Gaza.
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/05/30/israeli-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/
https://www.timesofisrael.com/plurality-of-jewish-israelis-want-to-expel-arabs-study-shows/
My data was old, it used to be fairly balanced, it's been shifting towards, well, the crazies over the last 2 decades.
The secular moderates are basically being silenced.
Guess America has that to look forward to...
Unless they’re laying down in front of military vehicles and physically defending against settler violence their words don’t mean much.
There is some who do. Many of them probably signed this lettet. They get violently beaten up. Of course when IDF soldiers beat up visibly practicing Jews thia does not spark outrage over antisemitism in the West. Because Jews being beaten up for their religious convictions is only antisemitism if the attackers are brown.
I hope this is the start of many more such voices.
The Israeli left has been advocating for peace for the last 57 years and losing ground because of it so don't hold your breath.
Not just the left, the slim majority of everyone but the right-wing.
Hamas's attack terrified that majority into silence, while the right-wing took back the entire dialogue.
There was no dialogue to take back, what are you talking about. The world didn't pop into existence Oct 7th.
I hope so too.
With a strong enough swell of support from Israelis, the need to work with Netanyahu to maintain our reputation of standing by our allies and maintaining some leverage over the Israeli government would evaporate. It'd create room for a strong pivot that would still allow us to plausibly threaten Netanyahu with consequences, maintaining his inability to finish his ethnic cleansing goals.
Needs a lot of people though, enough to give some plausible cover to what could otherwise be perceived as a betrayal of an established alliance. We could say we're still standing with the Israelis, though, look, here's their signatures. The rest of them are clearly traumatized and not in their right senses.
I don't think we'd need a majority of their population to sign or anything, but a lot for sure.
F Israel! Their mask of being a democracy is now off and they are worse then some of the mustache man.