Ebikes, bicycles, scooters, skateboards, longboards, eboards, motorcycles, skates, unicycles: Whatever floats your goat, this is all things micromobility!
"Transportation using lightweight vehicles such as bicycles or scooters, especially electric ones that may be borrowed as part of a self-service rental program in which people rent vehicles for short-term use within a town or city.
micromobility is seen as a potential solution to moving people more efficiently around cities"
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It's a little sad that we need to actually say this, but:
Don't be an asshole or you will be permanently banned.
Respectful debate is totally OK, criticizing a product is fine, but being verbally abusive will not be tolerated.
Focus on discussing the idea, not attacking the person.
These bikes are usually slower, less than 120 miles of range, and are almost double the price of a gas bike.
There isn’t really much advantage over a gas bike (and I say this as an e-dirtbike owner) just yet. Instant torque, no clutch, and much lighter are all these things have going for them. It’s not enough
These bikes are usually slower, less than 120 miles of range, and are almost double the price of a gas bike.
And you can't really fix them anywhere but a highly specialized service dealer.
I watch a lot of bike and motorcycle touring videos on YouTube. These people have their busted bikes repaired in small African villages without any real issues. I couldn't see anyone adventure riding on an e-motorcycle.
Emotos are designed for riding near civilization, and in that case, e-bikes are better in nearly every way.
I'm okay with the price and range. I am actively averse to the parts and service lock-in, app requirements, subscription-based everything, data privacy issues, and all of the other "modern" bullshit that comes with modern vehicles. I think most people at least implicitly understand that the early gold rush is going to be a bloodbath and that new entrants to the game are going to sputter and trip on things that other companies have been doing for decades.
I'd buy an electric motorcycle today if it didn't have an app requirement to get full power and level 3 charging, didn't have any subscription bullshit, was entirely designed to be worked on by anyone with basic tools and knowledge, had user-swappable batteries, and had a strong data privacy policy.
So yeah, lots of niche players are going to die, and most of them absolutely deserve it.
literally just this
Hard agree. Cars too, I hope all this bullshit goes the way of the dodo bird.
I would absolutely love an ebike, but they are outrageously priced.
eBike or electric motorcycle? I see them used interchangeably sometimes but I always thought eBike included pedaling and topped out at like 35kph
Sorry I meant emotorbike, motorcycle
Although ebycicles are also overpriced for the non crap ones
Yeah the emoto are super pricey.
Ebikes definitely have more variability across the market. You can get a pretty damn good one in the 1k range, which seems reasonable given the price of batteries.
You can get a pretty damn good one in the 1k range, which seems reasonable given the price of batteries.
Avid cyclist here, former community bicycle mechanic, and my partner works in the biggest bike shop in town. There are no good electric bicycles under $2000. This is how houses burn down. Furthermore, shitty mail order bikes are an e-waste scourge.
They are difficult to work on, very frequently use proprietary parts that might be specific to that model year, often have mechanical disc brakes and no-name parts, and have crappy electronics and batteries.
You may love your cheap electric bike. I wish you the best of luck and many happy miles.
Good to know - I didn't opt for the 1k range personally, I sprang for a Priority Current with Enviolo hub. Love that bike - commute 9 miles to work on it.
I love what Priority is doing with bikes. It's like they thought "What do bike commuters really need?" And then they built those bikes without letting the MBAs and bean counters getting in their way.
I'd like to get a 600x one day
You might get some close to that on sale, Yamaha RC was like $1250 for a while I think. There's also REI Co-op, which certainly isn't the best, but it should get you from point A to point B without burning your house down.
You raise a good point on REI. I would trust any of those to not burn down my neighbor's house. I would also trust REI to be able to work on any bike they sell, AND make sure it's actually set up correctly before it goes out the door. At the LBS where my partner works, just about every day, people bring in bikes that would put the fear in you. The "new in box" mail order ebikes can fill a novel just by themselves.
We need a catchy name for electric motorbikes. ehog? ebraaap? Ducat-e?
I like emoto
That's what I usually see and use.
I like it because you mentioned it in the other thread with me and I've stolen it.
emoto™ is mine now... You can license it from me for $7Trillion
E-Moto®©™
I own them all
RIP emoto.
Curse our easily abused intellectual property system!
They're supposed to top out at 28 mph (45kph) in the US, but people sometimes make or reprogram them to go faster. I usually refer to actual motorcycles as emoto to differentiate but its sounds like they mean emoto here.
Yeah I was mostly asking because it seems like emoto is ruinously expensive while bikes are a pretty wide range
They should rebrand as technobike or something. Give it it's own cool name
If they could add stainless steel panels, make them rust outside, and drastically raise the price, that would be a huge step forward for a few thousand people apparently.
I really want one, but can’t stomach the price for what you get. Imma need something sub 10k… or something over 250 miles of range if it’s going to be 20k.
My EV gets between 280-300 miles on a charge and that works great. Any less will need to wait on more charging stations. Motorcyclists are known for wanting to ride highways over choosing interstates. Interstates have good charging infrastructure, highways… not so much.
Very few people are motorcycle enthusiasts these days and an even fewer would be into dropping $20,000-$30,000+ on an e-motorcycle. That's getting up into new-car prices. Gasoline bikes are considerably cheaper and second hand ones are even cheaper still. They are also reasonably priced to service and have tanks that can be filled with change you find between the couch cushions.
It really is no surprise these aren't taking off.
I didn’t even know this was a thing until now. Sure, seems obvious, but their marketing was clearly shit.
Switched to electric bike years ago and have no regrets. Tbf I did switch from a Ducati so high price wasn't a show stopper, but I love my Zero SR.
Just got the battery replaced due to an issue with one of the modules with days left on the warranty and Zero took care of it without any cost to me after a quick diagnostic process.
Otherwise zero issues with my Zero. Only maintenance in the last 4 years is replacing the tires. Love the bike.
How's the range? I also feel like it's slightly more dangerous since the bike is silent and the other drivers can't detect the bike coming by
Range depends A LOT on how you ride but anywhere from 80 to 120 miles is my experience. I'm sure you can get 160 miles from specs if you ride at speed limit.
My 848 had a very loud Acrapovic exhaust so cars would part like the red sea, but I haven't noticed any difference in how drivers react between my Monster with a stock exhaust and Zero. Oblivious drivers will drive like shit unless something REALLY grabs their attention. Silent motor doesn't really make it worse. I maybe only feel it at intersections because it seems like it is more difficult for drivers to gauge your speed without the sound.
They should form a co-op and get behind a few models. If you lower your costs and overhead, and pool your customer base, you'll be able to to remain viable while staying above corporate buyouts.
Because the battery tech isn't ready yet.
They have enough range to commute around town, but then why not an ebike or electric scooter? Both of which are cheaper and go fast enough. Depending on local laws and trails, an ebike might give you access to bike trails aside from the regular road.
If you want to cruise on the highway, the poor aerodynamics of motorcycles means range plummets much harder than it does for EVs.
I've been seeing lots of electric motorcycle manufacturers market their combined or city range, but hide away their highway range. You have to go digging to find it, and once you do, it becomes obvious why. It's abysmal.
My standard is that I can ride from my home in Madison, WI out to Wisconsin Dells and back again on one charge. This isn't even that long of a ride. I haven't found an electric motorcycle yet that can do it. Batteries will need to double in capacity per kg before it can get there. That would take another decade or so of the improvement rate we've seen over the past 20 years.
The highway efficiency losses are due to the inefficiency of the electric motors running at the higher speeds.
No. It is aerodynamics vs weight balance. Low speed, weight matters a lot. High speed takes major power to overcome air resistance especially if geometry is like a Harley instead of a motosport race bike. Electric motors are most efficient at top RPMs.
That doesn't explain all the data. EVs would also show a much greater drop on highway range than they do.
Aerodynamics is at play, here. Motorcycles have a better frontal cross section than cars, but their drag coefficient is much worse.
Edit: also, the drop in efficency at high speed is small. Depends on the type of motor, but it's usually only a few percent:
https://electricalacademia.com/induction-motor/three-phase-induction-motor-performance/
Please show the drag coefficients being so much worse?
Every number I find is very similar if not better.
https://airshaper.com/videos/motorcycle-aerodynamics/qrH_QBOrqbw
Unfortunately, open wheels, sharp edges, exposed components and a constantly moving rider cause all sorts of disturbances to the airflow. This makes it extremely difficult for air to remain attached and so the flow separates, creating wakes and generating drag. Consequently, the drag coefficient of a motorbike can range from 0.5-1.0 which is double that of a modern car.
The best cars are around 0.2. EVs have been getting close to that because they get hit hard on highway range if they don't. ICE cars tend to be closer to 0.3.
I wanted the energica. But bought a gasoline bike with more options for 15k less.
The energic looks so sexy man. Really want that bike
Electric motorcycles have never had a market.
Why are companies trying to force a product that nobody is asking for?
Built better e-bikes, and forget e-motorcycles.
Motorcycle riders will need to ride electric at some point. I'm asking for this product, but the price is too high and performance is not good enough for me to justify it yet. (Same as cars to be fair)
Motorcycle riders will need to ride electric at some point.
Which motorcycle riders? Do you see e-motorcycles being a realistic market in the places where the majority of motorcycles are used? Undeveloped countries.
There needs to be an overwhelming benefit to owning one, and that's just not happening any time soon.
You may get some niche grey area products gaining traction (i.e. Surons), but it's extremely hard to convince people to get a standard e-motorcycle.
Because gas motorcycles will eventually be forced to cease production much like cars. So the motorcycle manufacturers will eventually need to make one
So the motorcycle manufacturers will eventually need to make one
I mean, are we talking the next 10 years? 50? 150?
ICE vehicles really can't just go away unless underdeveloped or developing nations have a way to also own what's next.
I agree that it will eventually get there, and that we really should be moving away from ICE vehicles, but we need to be realistic here. It's hard for even people living in North America or Europe to afford an EV... or even food and rent, for that matter.
Ebikes are doing well. Surron style "small motorcycles" and Cafe/scooters seem to do well in North America.
45-60kph top speed is really the sweet spot for an ebike. With most travel about 30kph. The step above that needs 1500w charging, but batteries are almost always optimized for performance instead of charging rate. 2-3 hours to full is not that great, and a heavier bike getting 1500wh might get just 80km range over 2 hours.
It's normal for all ebikes to have 1 hour of range at full speed. Fewer practical use for this at motorcycle speeds. An EV like Citroen Ami ($6000 car at 45kph max speed) will have more range and practicality despite parking hassles than an expensive e-moto.