this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2024
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Fediverse

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A community to talk about the Fediverse and all it's related services using ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, KBin, etc).

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I don't like the clickbait title at all -- Mastodon's clearly going to survive, at least for the forseeable future, and it wouldn't surprise me if it outlives Xitter.

Still, Mastodon is struggling; most of the people who checkd it out in the November 2022 surge (or the smaller June 2023 surge) didn't stick around, and numbers have been steadily declining for the last year. The author makes some good points, and some of the comments are excellent.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (9 children)

Let's see:

Network effect hits Mastodon specially hard as it competes not just with Twitter, but also Threads and Bluesky. In those situations, a smaller userbase means that people will outright ignore you as an option.

The way that federation was implemented; as linearchaos mentioned in another thread, if you settle in a smaller instance (the "right" thing to do), you won't get "good collections of off node traffic". So it creates a situation where, if you know how federation works you'll avoid big instances, and worsen your own experience; and if you don't, well, Mastodon's big selling point goes down the drain.

Federation itself introduces a complexity cost. That's unavoidable and the benefits of federation outweigh the cost by far; however, the cost is concrete while the bigger benefit is far more abstract.

Branding issues. Other users already mentioned it, but you don't sell a novel tech named after an extinct animal.

And this is just conjecture from my part, but I think that microblogging is becoming less popular than it used to be; people who like short content would rather go watch a TikTok video, and people who want well-thought content already would rather read a "proper" blog instead.

On a lighter side: the very fact that we're using the ActivityPub now helps Mastodon, even if we're in different platforms (like Lemmy, MBin, PieFed, SubLinks). Due to how federation works, you're bound to see someone in Mastodon sharing content with those forums and vice versa; it could be a bit less clunky but it's still more content for both sides.

On the text: I think that the author reached the right conclusion through the wrong reasoning. The activity peaks don't matter that much, when there's a huge influx of users you're bound to see some leaving five minutes later. The reason why Mastodon is struggling is this:

Source of the data.

See those slopes down? They show that the stable userbase is shrinking. Even users engaged enough with the platform are slowly leaving, but newbies who could fill their place aren't popping up.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 days ago (5 children)

you don’t sell a novel tech named after an extinct animal

They didn't, Mastodon is named after the metal band (which is named after the extinct animal) 🙂

Either way, back in 2008 I bet people were making fun of Twitter for being named after bird sounds, so.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 days ago

i wish Lemmy would embrace Mastodon and make it easy for Lemmy users to join that network

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago

I don't see the point. It's like twitter. Never saw the point of that either instead of lemmy or Reddit honestly

[–] Apytele 10 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Honestly my biggest issue is getting randomly banned from trans spaces for expressing my own lived experience with surgery and how I view my own body and gender. They're so "inclusive" that they start excluding people that don't use their very specific language or share their beliefs exactly. They keep kicking people out then wondering where all the people went!

[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 days ago

That's true of a lot of spaces who have been historically discriminated against. They become so hyper-aware of any criticism, that they immediately think anyone who has an experience different than their own is "the enemy".

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 days ago

While I agree with the article and a lot of comments, I am still active on my Mastodon account and I am enjoying it more than ever.

Disclaimer: I'm a white male westerner working in IT. 😉

A friend of mine works in linguistics and education. He was an avid Twitter user and has since migrated to Bluesky and Mastodon. He says, Mastodon is quite complex and clunky but on Bluesky there's not much happening in his bubble.

For me, the quality of the conversation and the regional character of my local instance is a big plus on Madison. On Lemmy, I read a lot on international and tech topics, but on Mastodon, the conversation is related more to my countries politics and my region.

So, maybe they lost a lot of users. But the 14% that stayed are a good start for quite a vivid community.

If anyone has questions on how to get something out of Mastodon, ask away or follow me here: [email protected].

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 days ago

Definently had the feeling of walking into a gay bar and not knowing anyone, like the article says.

I thought it was pretty cool personally because I never interact with gay people (afaik) in real life. And we have computer tech as a common interest, that's why we are on mastadon... But for people who are not into tech, I guess it's not so much to talk about maybe.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 days ago

Because no one is on it. I don't do twitter/facebook-like social media to interact exclusively with random people. I have no family or friends on Mastodon and couldn't tell you if any "content creators," for the lack of a better term, that I follow elsewhere are on it to follow.

[–] Pika 6 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

I personally didn't like mastodon's UI style, I found it tedious to use and more complicated then needed.

There's no real similar product(at least out of what I've used) so nothing to run muscle memory on, and it deep dived into federation to the point it was confusing too confusing to figure out

[–] BKXcY86CHs2k8Coz 4 points 5 days ago

Agreed! It’s centralized around hubs instead of being truly distributed. Why isn’t an “instance” a set of users with an identical config file based on the agreed upon moderation/federation? Why do I have to join a single server that can go down repeatedly? It is giving up yhe advantages of cloud/distributed services.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I kind of don’t want it to succeed to the level of Twitter. All the people I like on Mastodon are there now and the trolls and chuds are mostly staying away because they don’t get the attention of millions of eyeballs.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (6 children)

Mastodon is just like Threads : a hype , wait for the hype to end and you'll see that it doesn't offer something that would impress an ordinary person who isn't a nerd or tech savvy enough to continue using it... What I'll say now is more like random thoughts about federation and it applies to any federated service but this post inspired my thoughts so ...

The two best features I can think of for Mastodon are :

  • Open source: an excellent thing but it's probably not important for an ordinary person who still uses the products of big companies just because they are "convenient" and "common" even when his data is the cost
  • federated: although it provides freedom to choose where you want to join, it creates a lot of confusion and inconvenience as well : I personally have somewhat specific interests and I usually tend to avoid public instances dedicated to "everything", however, every time I decided to join a federated service I got the same confusion : "which instance should I choose?" , I had two accounts on Mastodon before I deleted one of them ( and I'll probably delete the other soon ) and I felt this confusion the two times I created an account, I have two accounts on Lemmy and I felt this confusion the two times I created an account, one account on Peertube and it's the same ( this was the most difficult of them honestly because Peertube's filters are very bad and whenever I could find an instance that I considered good, it turns out that registration is closed, or needs approval), the same confusion also happened when I created an account on Kbin/Mbin , the same on Pixelfeed , the same when I searched for an instance of friendica and it will be the same when I think in the future to repeat the experience on any other federated service... Now, someone may come and say the famous sentence "it doesn't matter which instance you choose, at the end you can follow anything from any instance" and honestly this sentence is a pure myth imho because .. first : when you register an account in an instance, you will constantly notice the "local" section, which shows you what's happening on the instance you are in , and it'll form part of your experience in the instance depending on the instance itself and people on this instance , also , let's suppose that a large number of annoying users existed on a popular instance and the moderation of this instance couldn't solve the problem ( or didn't do anything about this in the first place) , what might happen is that moderation of other instances might decide to defederate with this instance, and this might affect an ordinary user who has done nothing but joined the instance - and any other person who isn't annoying but but ended up on this instance -, I know that this point is unreal currently but it might be real one day especially that some instances are known for not being tolerated with specific behaviors
  • Another confusion that might happen ... I'll explain it with my own experience : when I was still using my first Mastodon account, I left the account for a few months and then decided to return ... but guess what happened ? I forgot which instance I signed up for in the first place ! fortunately, after two attempts in two different instances, I found the solution : I searched on a random instance for my Account (I still remember the username ) and was able to find it ... I was lucky in this, but I can't guarantee that everyone will be as lucky as me and will find a way to remember ( this is both a good and bad point for the federation , on the one hand I forgot where I registered because the instances are similar , and on the other hand I found the instance which I registered in using another instance )
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