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After a day and several replies from people. I've come to the conclusion that people here are ok with their party and leaders supporting genocide and they attack the questioners (instead of their party leaders) who criticize those who support genocide. Critical thinking is scarce here.
I'm shameful of humanity.
So in either not voting or voting for the other guy you achieve:
even more and FASTER genocide
genocide in ukraine
genocide at home for everyone in lgbtq
Good job! You solved genocide by not voting Kamala!
Let the guy who wants to do even more genocide into office! That'll show the genociders!
People really out here wondering how the dems could have such right wing policies while also never showing up during primaries or generals to indicate that moving left will pay anything back.
Fosters electoral climate where the people who at minimum are sympathetic to the genociders are the majority of likely voters.
"Why won't the dems go against the genociders‽ How dare a major political party adopt policy positions that upset a contingent of voters who have consistently demonstrated they can't be trusted to show up even when you do take the positions they want as evidenced by how they completely abandoned Bernie during the primaries BOTH GODDAMNED TIMES!!!!"
Now to speak as a Palestinian American, your supposed stand for your principals is actively putting my people in even more danger, so quit acting like you're their ally while you basically use them as a hostage to demand leaders stop letting them be held hostage.
If you think the answer to Dems being soft on Bibi is to let power back into the hands of the guy who handed him West Bank, East Jerusalem, and The Golan Heights on a silver platter, you're either a covert zionist, or an unwitting agent of them, either way, you need to sit down and shut the fuck up before you get the people you're talking over into even more danger.
I'll ask the same question i did on the other thread. Why, do disaffected voters have to ...
[show] up during primaries or generals to indicate that moving left will pay anything back.
Why not just poll them, or focus-group them, or use proxies like social media?
You seem to have no problem with the notion of leftist groups communicating preferred policies to Democrat strategists, but then seem to bizarrely assume that the only way to communicate a willingness to vote is to actually vote (for a party you don't agree with).
Tell me... We all go out and vote Democrat. They get into power. How do they now know it wasn't the support for genocide that won them the vote and go even further next time?
Are you actually advocating that people shouldn't have to show up to the political system to get the system to go their way? Like, this is exactly what the primaries are for. Obama wasn't the preferred party candidate in 2008, it was Hilary, but there was so much primary support from Obama that he won over her. The same could have happened in 2016 or 2020, but young voters predominantly didn't come out to vote in the primaries.
If you think you should be able to just fill out a poll and turn out in November you fundamentally don't understand how the system works.
A take I've heard that maybe you'll understand is this:
Leftist organizing in the US isn't going to change the system 90 days before election day. There's simply too much momentum with the two party system we have.
So now the situation is, vote for whoever you'd rather have in charge of the country while you do your leftist organizing for the next several years. I know I'd rather do that work under a Harris presidency than a Trump one, for a million obvious reasons.
To do anything else is to simply not understand the reality of the situation.
That's a reasonable argument, but it leads to some pretty uncomfortable conclusions for democracy.
During our next "leftist organizing for the next several years.", why would the Democrats budge an inch given that they know all they need to do is hold fast until the last 90 days and we'll all fall into line and vote for them anyway?
We end up like the boy who cries wolf. All our protest and campaigns mean nothing because our votes are, in the end, absolutely guaranteed. The Democrats can have whatever policy positions they like.
I don't see how 4 years or 4 days makes any difference. If they are guaranteed your vote come election day, they have no reason to shift policy in order to obtain it.
At the risk of feeding a sea lion, there’s actually a simple reason a candidate might shift their position toward voters that are already “guaranteed” to vote for them: if that “guaranteed” base grows, it provides a voting offset that could allow the candidate to worry less about losing the support of less progressive voters.
Oh. I've just looked up 'sea-lion'. Jesus fucking Christ. In one thread we've had the argument, from supposed progressives, that;
This is the progressive position now?
This isn't politics, it's a fucking religion.
if that “guaranteed” base grows, it provides a voting offset that could allow the candidate to worry less about losing the support of less progressive voters.
Sure.
But why would they? If the base that's 'grown' is guaranteed, then why shift at all? Why not have the new larger guaranteed base, and the less progressive voters. After all, the guaranteed base is guaranteed, you don't need to do anything to get their votes.
But let's say they want to risk it for ideological reasons (no evidence at all that this is the case, but for the sake of argument we could assume it).
You've still not addressed the two main questions.
How do they know the extra votes came from left-leaning but 'guaranteed' voters, and not from voters who really liked their centrist policies?
If they have some way of knowing (polls, focus-groups etc) then why can't they use that way of knowing to ask about voter commitment, and make the move to the left before the election, why do they need us to actually vote first to find out if we're in this 'guaranteed base'?
I'd say then you don't understand the purpose of on-the-ground political organizing or what it looks like. It's not about changing the whole system in one go, it's about radicalizing as many people as possible for a grassroots movement. You use that to get local politicians in power favorable to leftist causes. Then you apply pressure upward.
We're currently more radicalized as a country than we've been since the Red Scare. Just because the progress is frustratingly slow does not mean it isn't happening.
I too have a nuanced opinion about my voting options and a strong contempt for candidates who talk down to people who are right.
I'm still voting Harris because the only other option wants to see people like me hanged.
regardless of the genocide(that has been going on for the last 20 election cycles), if you are undecided about the right choice in the 2024 US election, you're ignorant, selfish or spoiled.
Is it too much to ask for a meme template that doesn't DIRECTLY contradict your message?
Or did you mean to imply that single-issue anti-gaza-slaughter voters are the equivalent of star wars criticts being properly annoyed by folk who like melodramatic space opera?
Just vote for my guy, trust me bro