Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.
As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades:
How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world:
Recommended actions to cut greenhouse gas emissions in the near future:
Anti-science, inactivism, and unsupported conspiracy theories are not ok here.
How about everyone who says it's the job of the little guy to fix the climate problem kicks a rock and governments, shipping companies, cruise lines, airlines, industrial farmers, etc PUT DOWN THE FORK.
Every individual in every country is not responsible for allowing year over year profits in industries that ignore the writing on the wall.
Beef consumption at current levels is unsustainable, I agree with your general principle but you're saying this as if everyone can continue to consume tons of beef every year. Whether industry, regulation, or individual action: you're not going to eat as much beef.
This isn't like recycling
So if that's the problem, government should step in and limit beef production. Why rely on everyone to "do the right thing" to solve societal problems? That's why government exists.
I don't disagree, and in fact it is a huge part of the problem and we actively subsidize its production let alone limiting it. However the end result will be the same, so it's not like saying "why should I have to recycle/deal with waste because companies are making single use products" because unlike in that case the alternative still has you eating less meat.
Consider checking out this entertaining and informative video about how wild things get https://youtu.be/XusyNT_k-1c?si=K_gxkl0X60kFmvw0.
Overseas nations grow animal feed in the US and ship it halfway across the world to feed their cattle. It's absurd.
While I think it's a good ideal, I have met a lot of people in my life and have no confidence that any progress will be made by leaving the solution up to them
You can change what you do without input or veto from anyone else.
That is not true for governments.
You can do both. You can go vegan for the environment (if abuse of animals isn’t enough for you) AND vote for a/lobby the government for larger sweeping action.
Sure.
At the same time, I can enjoy a great steak every now and again, and I can travel with my children to make sure they know their great grandmother in a different country every two years. And I can do those things and not feel bad because 80% of the time we do our part. Corpos, by comparison, are not pulling their weight, and they are already most of the problem.
I totally agree with this notion, everybody should do what they realistically can, and it will look different for everyone. Some can be vegan and it will work out great, others will struggle to give up meat. Some can bike/walk to work everyday, or avoid air travel, and some can't. Anyone doing well 80% of the time is probably doing just fine.
All that said, it is worth remembering that these industries are (mostly) funded by consumers, and while giant corporations are obviously the way bigger issue, consumers have more power than we often give ourselves credit for to restrict those companies. In a hypothetical world where everyone stops eating beef, it isn't like the beef industry continues to pollute. They will directly produce the amount of beef people will buy. Even if everyone has their steak now and then but doesn't make it an every night staple, that alone would already do a lot to limit the emissions of the beef industry. It's not a whole solution, but it is the one that is easiest and most obtainable, because convincing the government to stop subsidizing beef is not on the agenda of any major politicians at least in the states, even if I wish it were.
One problem with "voting with your wallet" like this is some wallets are bigger than others and it's not always easy and affordable to do the sustainable thing. Add to this that powerful lobbies (oil and gas, dairy, animal agriculture) use regulatory capture and other means to make their products the cheaper option for the consumer.
State action to drive green technologies down in price like that of China is met with tariffs and other protectionist measures that drive those prices right back up.
This is yet another tragedy of late stage capitalism sucking all wealth out of the working class, people may want to live more sustainably but they have to buy the cheap, disposable, subsidized options. Voting with your wallet isn't easy when your wallet is empty.
I'm fairly privileged and I lead a vegan lifestyle, and I can pay extra to have some luxuries like the meat substitutes, vegan restaurants, or non-fast-fashion clothing. Others might be able to do the same, cheaper, but at a lower quality of life.
If we tackled wealth inequality with any vigor at all, more people could do this.
That's true, and a big part of why what is possible for everyone varies. There is some silver lining, chicken is cheaper than beef and significantly lower carbon footprint, some vegan options can be very cheap too if there is time to cook.
But yes, for this who have the ability and inclination to vote with wallets, great, with acceptance for others who don't have that option
I made this decision a couple years ago. Gave up milk (switched to oat milk), but I still eat cheese and yogurt. I eat probably 20% of the red meat per year that I used to.
You don’t have to be a rabid vegan to make an impact.
This is such a good attitude! I cut all meat out of my diet a long time ago, and when I mention it, people often say something like "I'd love to but I couldn't commit to never having meat again".
You don't have to! It's amazing if you do, but you're still gonna make a sizable impact on the cause you care about if you reduce your intake.
It's odd that people don't have this with other issues, the idea of "reducing purchases of disposable plastic" or "buying fairtrade more" make total sense to people, but food is still often cashed out in these "all or nothing" terms.
100% spot on. I'm so tired of everything needing to be 100% or 0%. a 80% cut has an impact! so does 50%. we all need to do what we can, and not taking an extreme position doesn't make someone a sellout or faker or whatever. every little bit helps
a 80% cut has an impact! so does 50%.
i don't think so. i don't think it matters what you do in the grocery store or in a restaurant.
I think a lot of people have a problem admitting that the consumption of certain things causes harm, which is why they turn it into an all or nothing decision. But I believe in the principle of harm reduction, and not letting perfect be the enemy of ‘better’. Or put in a more positive light, ‘every little bit helps’.
But its much easier to hate vegans and pretend theyre the problem
Vegans are the problem? What problem? Causing climate change, or eating too much red meat? Your comment makes no sense.
Doesnt matter. Vegan hate does not follow logic. They brainwash our kids, they poison our wells, theyre not real men, anything goes.
Uhh…. right. You might want to check your carbon monoxide detectors.
They aren't the problem, but a good 10% of them are loud and annoying as hell, with no one wanting to hear them. They're Karen's.
More like 1% but yes, unsurprisingly there are annoying people in the vegan community like in any other community in existence.
That would depend on the vegan.
You don’t have to be a rabid vegan to make an impact.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/meat-production-tonnes?tab=chart&country=~OWID_WRL
the fact is that the industry continues to grow.
I can only control my own choices. But that fact is one of the main reasons I made that choice. It’s not sustainable.
Imagine thinking toxic masculinity is a bigger problem for this issue than beef/dairy subsidies and entrenched market forces. Nice distraction piece, NPR.
I honestly believe the two are related. I think big meat agro business is paying influencers to promote toxic masculinity and push nonsense like "plants emit toxic hormones" on social media.
Maybe, but that's just to keep demand anywhere near high enough to consume the products that subsidies ensure they will be producing anyways, so they can argue that the current subsidies are necessary.
If it's purely on subsidies, then why, as stated in the article, are men consuming disproportionately more beef than women? Am I missing out on my secret man meat tax cut?
Yeah, i think that research might be missing some context...
Meat consumption by males goes up when you have a developed nation, it's almost purely economic, stupid to try to make this part of the culture war considering how small these communities are and their median ages.
"Economic factors explain the influence of human development since meat production costs are higher than plant-origin food production. Nations with more resources provide more options for individuals to buy and eat beef. The findings build on comparable studies with psychological traits and help rule out reference group effects as a possible reason."
Has anyone here ever heard of this website? News-Medical.net ? Unless it's an actual study, and not some BS where data is cherry-picked from certain sample groups, I wouldn't pay it any mind.
Toxic masculinity (a.k.a. patriarchy) most definitely affects men eating more meat.
Subsidies for industrial beef production greatly affects it.
But all of this is due to the lack of societal/political change.
And, in all honesty, if it was not for the pollution created by the US military and "big business", we'd be on our 2ay to a much greener Earth already, without having to affect far more change.
It's a journal site, here's the link to the actual study in nature. The language is tougher.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-62511-3
I think i see where you're coming from, to me it feels like traveling a long path from the obvious economics of subsidy and advertising, especially the ubiquity of beef, and making that about the patriarchy. Feels removed from the problem of economic incentive, but more than just access seems to drive it, this paper has multiple relevant drivers though and it does seem to be at least partially based on gender.
Yes, you're missing that subsidies ensure the same amount of beef gets produced no matter the demand. In fact, that amount is set higher than demand. Demand is artificially increased due to the high availability and low prices resulting from these policies. Removing the subsidies would lower both Availability and Demand, as the lowered availability would increase prices.
TL;DR: Consumption gender ratios have NOTHING to do with the amount of beef that is being produced, nor, therefore, its impacts on the environment.
I can only restate the obvious so many times, and I HAVE already restated the facts on this at least twice prior to your question. Are you dense, or just insincere?
Not eating beef is pretty easy. Lots of alternatives.
I dropped beef and pork and stayed with turkey and fish.
Found a bunch of plant based options to replace the beef texture too.
It's really just some stupid mindset about STEAK that many Americans have.
I'm not vegan, and not trying to say people should be vegan. I love me a good steak, but I was out with some vegan friends, and we went to a vegan restaurant. They served me something that was doing an excellent impression of a steak. Good enough that if I knew which various plant protein they were using, I'd make that at home.
Burgers they have down these days, and eating veggies burgers allows me to have more meals a week without meat. Same for most sausages. I don't know how they did it, but I had a vegan brat that had a snappy "skin."
The more obsessed you are with the trappings of manhood the more everyone knows you're faking it
I just buy from a local farmer. 1/2 cow and 1/2 pig feed my family for a year.
To get the same amount of meat from a commercial butcher it'd take probably hundreds of not thousands of animals.
Pigs are the only animal I struggle with eating, morally. Cows are gentle but really dumb and I don't have moral issues about eating birds.
What do you mean a commercial butcher will need thousands of animals to produce the same amount of meat as a half cow locally? I haven't heard an argument that a little meat from a bunch of animals is ethically any different than a lot of meat from one animal, just curious.
Pigs are the only animal I struggle with eating, morally.
Yeah, they're pretty intelligent and emotionally aware, at least as much as your average dog.
this is warmed-over poore-nemecek 2018. that's the primary basis for the claims about the climate, but the methodology of that study is fucked, and it's a disservice to actual climate science to keep touting this meta"study" that misuses its source material and myopically focuses on distilling data instead of understanding the complexity of our agricultural systems. the textile industry's water use, land use, and emissions, i guarantee, are being counted in poore-nemecek as emissions from beef. i didn't pull out the data from the separate reference to water use, but i will eat my hat if that doesn't, as well.
eating less beef has not been effective at stopping the growth of the beef industry for all the people who have done so. we need a real solution, and trying to influence individual consumer choice isn't working.
edit: down voting doesn't change the truth
My only care is that cow meat tastes damned good. KC strip steaks, smoked brisket, and hamburger in its many forms.
If it can taste like that, then I almost don't care where it comes from.
Almost?
I don't want to eat cats, dogs, people, shit, cockrraches, and probably many other things. Lol.
Yeah, also milk, there's no replacement yet. When I read almonds/oats milk, I got to puke. How can anyone believe it tastes like milk, let alone taste good? Do they not notice that very bitter and awful taste it cointains or do they put extra double sugar into it to make it taste? Some people really have some strong self hypnosis going on or lack taste buds.
I gave them a chance, wholeheartedly and was so super disappointed on the taste, I thought people were trolling me.
I guess I'll keep the trolling going then, because I've been switched to plant milk for a couple years—mostly oat, but I'll mix in some soy for protein, or coconut because yum. I don't drink it straight, it's mostly for cereal. I usually have a regular and a vanilla because each is good with different cereals. If you want the closest to "real" milk, about 80% (regular) oat and 20% coconut I think is pretty close. Silk makes what they call "One" milk that's pretty much that, but I like to experiment with the ratio myself. 😄
Regular milk tastes... weird now. Slightly acidic almost? I can also feel that my gut doesn't like trying to digest it. (Almost like milk is supposed to be for infants, who'd've thunk? 😅)
Almond milk though... BLECK. I can't stand it. Often watery, acidy, weird aftertaste, just like you said.