this post was submitted on 07 Jun 2024
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Fuck Cars

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Urban Microcars (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by freebee to c/[email protected]
 

Society's got priorities wrong.

  • most car travels are 1 person or sometimes 2 person

  • the majority of car travels are quite short, less than 40km.

  • many car travels are just to get some groceries or drop of a little package or just say "hi" to someone, carrying nothing but themselves.

  • cars are fucking expensive, to buy and to maintain

  • accidents become way worse with heavier vehicles

Microcar is a valid answer to all of these, while still being sheltered from weather.

How are urban places (i'm in Belgium) with almost permanent super heavy road traffic congestion, bad climate statistics, high polution values, very limited available space left, no self-sustaining energy production and high traffic accident statistics still pooring in billions and billions in subsidies year after year into "regular" big heavy SUV-like vehicles instead of these? It's beyond my comprehension. The only real valid reason i somewhat get is the collective scare of being in a crash and not wanting to be in the smaller vehicle. We could save the climate, we choose not to.

  • MICROLINO: 17.990 €
  • OPEL ROCKS: 8.699 €
  • CITROEN AMI: 7.790 €
  • RENAULT TWIZY: 13.000 €
  • FIAT TOPOLINO: 9.890 €

A lot of people here casually spend more on a sunday racing bike every few years for fucks sake.

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[–] [email protected] 70 points 5 months ago (10 children)

I get the points that you are trying to make but those micro cars are shit for the consumer for those prices. Yes, you have a small car that isn't powered by fossil fuels, but

  • You can't transport jack shit. I've sat in the Opel thingy and while it's comfortable for the two passengers you have literally no boot.
  • If you consider one of those most likely you live in a densely populated urban area an can use public transportation as well. And one of the last things public transportation sucks, is transporting unwieldy stuff with you. And your mini car doesn't provide a solution to this, so you have to pay a rental again.
  • Those things are waaaaayyyy to expensive for what they offer. Atm you're paying the early adopter premium to drive in a speed restricted, range restricted, and payload restricted vehicle for 10k.

I've been riding public transportation almost exclusively for the last 10 years or so and only had to consider getting a car for long distance travel and transporting shit. And at that point you'll be better off spending 4-7k for an older station wagon than those things.

Also I'm not entirely sure how eco friendly it is to buy a brand new mini EV rather than driving around with a 15 year old car where nothing new has to be produced. Depends for sure on the yearly mileage. Which isn't high in my case, but you for sure won't be driving 15000 km a year in a mini car.

If we compare new regular and new EV? Sure, but then I'll wait until real competitive alternatives in the low-price sector pop up.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 5 months ago (9 children)

They're also ugly as shit, which unfortunately will affect adoption more than people care to admit. But then again, the PT Cruiser and Nissan Cube sold, so maybe I'm wrong.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 5 months ago (3 children)
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[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago (5 children)

You forgot to mention the GOAT of ugly cars, the Fiat Multipla.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago

I have a soft spot for that thing. It's so ugly that it's charming

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

I knew someone was eventually gonna name that monster; I didn't know that people ouside of italy where aware of it. You know what's the worst part? It's actually very reliable, and drives decently; it's just as ugly as the plague.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The most eco-friendly car is the one already in your driveway. Use it until it dies.

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 5 months ago (12 children)

What cities actually need:

M E T R O

E

T

R

O

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

Sometimes people do need a car, and if they do I would prefer it to be a small little thing like this rather than something larger.
These kinds of car are quite popular in Amsterdam, for instance

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Looks like we are back to the 1950's and the time of the "Smooch bubble" BMW Isetta. I always loved the look of this car.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

BMW Isetta

Or, for our American audience, The Urkelmobile

[–] wheeldawg 6 points 5 months ago

Oh my God that's what it is! I know this was familiar. The front wall is a door.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Hmm, I wonder how many of these cars are used to replace existing ones...

Most of the micro cars I see are parked by a highschool so to me it seems like people view them as a stop gap between no car and car ownership and not as a way to replace existing cars.

It's making cars more viable, especially to young people and I fail to see that as a positive thing.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Here in italy they are mostly bought because you can legally drive them with the license you can get at 14y; essentially it's used as a car to get to high school/ university where you rarely can find parking spots.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago (1 children)

In France, they can be driven without a driver's license if they don't go faster than 45km/h, so they are exclusively used by alcoholics.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

France. Not even once.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago (10 children)

These microcars can be very useful for people with disabilities or other special needs, but for everyone else the best car replacement is an electric cargo bike: they're cheaper and give you more capacity for groceries.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I wouldn't say they are usefully for people with disabilities. They have zero space to store a wheelchair or even simple crutches, even a cane would be problematic. They are hell to get in and out of because they are so low. On top of that, a person with a disability gets to feel at least some kind or normality when their behind the wheel of a car, because its not apparent from the outside whether the person driving is disabled or not. But with those things you stick out like a sore thumb on a road. You're better off using a golf cart at that point.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

I didn't mention it because I assume everyone here knows all Not Just Bikes videos by heart, but there are microcars that are specifically made for wheelchair users.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

You see these fairly often in Amsterdam; half of them are driven by the elderly and disabled and the other half are driven by burgeoning adult daughters of the rich as some bizarre fashion statement. There's a local company too called Heen & Weer (which means "there and back" or "back and forth") who taxi the elderly and disabled in one of these for €1 a go, which is a splendid, splendid idea.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I like the one on bottom right. So cute ❤️

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

I personally saw almost all these models in Amsterdam and Belgium this year. They are pretty great addition to existing solutions like trams, metros, busses, and cycling.

No reason to need to have a 4 seat car when most of the time you may be the only person in the vehicle. Would be cool if we could find these in North America more easily. I do find our personal vehicles are becoming too large causing more sprawl and larger parking lots, which in turn nesesitates car dependency when everything is so far apart because of our vehicle infrastructure.

ie. When was the last time you walked across a Wallmart parking lot plaza to go to the store on the other side? Its usually quicker (and safer) to drive...

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Yeah I visited France and Belgium a couple weeks ago and saw tons of these little dudes. It helps a lot if your cities are designed properly. In NA these would probably get totaled by monster pickups not seeing them.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Nevermind all of that. The number one reason not to drive in Belgium is Belgian drivers. In other countries there's the occasional assholish driver, in Belgium, it's completely normal and expected to drive like a cunt.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (3 children)
[–] thatKamGuy 8 points 5 months ago

Cheap yes, but a person should also be asking “would it pass with the same ENCAP safety ratings as the above?”.

[–] freebee 7 points 5 months ago

The Mini EV can seat four people, and standard features including air conditioning, power windows, stereo system, storage and compartments. Standard safety features of the Mini EV include anti-lock brakes, tire pressure monitoring sensors, and rear parking sensors. Early models did not include a driver airbag, but later models such as the Mini EV Macaron include the feature as standard.

That's pretty crazy!

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago

The twizy is old, and nobody uses it.
The topolino, and opel rocks are a citroen ami, it's just a rebrand.
The next generation of twizy is smarter, it will be a micro cargo car, it will be for deliveries in cities.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Half of these are literally a citroen ami with a different plastic shell

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago

almost permanent super heavy road traffic congestion, bad climate statistics, high polution values, very limited available space left

Fixing that starts with congestion charges. If the charges go up with more polluting and heavy vehicles, electrical lighter vehicles and public transportation suddenly become a lot more interesting.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago (6 children)

Drive in dense traffic in a vehicle with effectively no crumple zones? Hard pass.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago

Climate change can't kill you if everyone else does first

[–] freebee 12 points 5 months ago

welcome to the arms race.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Hate how inefficient the market is, mostly because of alcohol and now mobile phones while driving, safety has made larger cars more marketable. I don't trust my fellow Americans to drive properly and not crash into me with their oversized trucks that never do any trucking work

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Or

Electric bicycle / electric bike / electric trike.

Half the price, double the mileage, double the speed+acceleration, half the charging time, half the cost, half the parking space, 1/4th the traffic.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Agreed... however in countries like mine (Canada) the weather make those useful only half of the year.

PS: no, I am not like those hardcore people who can bike in the winter.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (3 children)

In Japan there is something similar they have a class of cars called kei car and it is not as small but close and have limited engine size like under liter for combustion variant and some other rules that they have to comply and those are less taxed and much cheaper but what suprised me at least in cities i visited last year still majority of the cars there was the regular ones

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

Were I live, you see them mostly in rural areas were public transport is scarce and you are basically stuck without a car. They have been proven to be a good alternative for seniors and young people that are not old enough for a full drivers licence (18).

I just had a conversation with my BIL, who told me that his company (a big tool manufacturer) and others in the area give them as some kind of signing bonus to new apprentices. They have recuting issues for a while and making young people mobile and independent from public transport seems to be effective.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

there need to be taxes on larger vehicles where its .05% times the weight of the vehicle.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (4 children)

The funny thing is that those cars are available and no one buys them because they don't fit with the objectives of the car buyer.

  • Safety is poor - especially if there are traditional cars on the road.

  • They are missing most ability beyond "go there". What about carrying things to and from places?

  • Can I never go camping again? Where does my dog go when we camp?

  • Am I not permitted a family?

The use cases for micro cars is very limited to "getting a person to a place" but shit for all other use cases. Let's move to a metro/rail solution and allow vehicular travel for use cases (rentals for parks, road trips, etc.)

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Now that you say it, it's been a while since I last saw a 'smart ForTwo'...

...they stopped producing those in March this year?

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