this post was submitted on 27 May 2024
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US Authoritarianism

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[–] Yondoza 36 points 9 months ago (4 children)

In reality capitalism is one of the most authoritarian systems in history.

This statement is pretty disingenuous. First, authoritarian is a political system, not an economic one, but for the sake of argument let's call authoritarian "the lack of personal choice or opportunity". I feel like this definition captures the sentiment of the original post.

Don't get me wrong, there are many flaws with the inequalities of capitalism, but it does provide much more freedom of opportunity than feudalism and substance farming in terms of economic systems. Those two have been the staple of civilization since its inception. Personally, I would choose the system where the deck is stacked against me, rather than the system where I don't get delt a hand.

So no, I don't think capitalism ranks as one of the most authoritarian systems in history. There are many changes we can make to reduce inequality and make the world "less authoritarian" though. Might be a better to push those ideas of improvement rather than pretending that we live in the worst time in history.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

Well authoritarian can also describe systems of organization and I feel its apt here. The owner at the top dictates decisions. They hold all of the power in the relationship between owner and worker. Contrast it with a worker co-op being a socialist system where each employee has a stake in the company. The author is an anarchist historian and there was a time in recent history where politics and workplaces were intertwined at the height of Union power. The separation of politics in the workplace is relatively new.

[–] Barbarian 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I feel like comparisons like this don't generally get made because capitalism is the default organising principle of the modern world, while feudalism (depending on where in the world we're talking about) hasn't been a thing for 150-800 years. People generally draw comparisons from what they experience and the experiences of those around them, not usually from history books.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

Wealth is power. Economics are one side of the coin, politics is the other. They are not separate and cannot be separated.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Capitalism and fascism go hand in hand.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

something something fascism is capitalism in decay

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I keep bringing up the industrial gilded age where the govt literally waged a war on factory workers.

The workers of this country had to spill blood just for livable wages and safe working conditions and over the next hundred years we let these rich fucks destroy everything that was put in place to guarantee workers rights.

It's to the point that a big part of me just wants to accept that this is just how humanity is. Doomed to chase profits and power until it destroys the whole species.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

When the government uses violence to stop you from negotiating a contract, you’re not in a free market and therefore aren’t in a capitalist place.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago

You can have capitalism without a completely, 100%, utopian un-interfered with market. In fact, that kind of market has never and could never exist, yet we still have capitalism.

And they call socialists utopians.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The direct consequences of Capitalism as applied to reality can be considered the direct consequences of Capitalism. Utopian AnCAPism is just that, utopian.

[–] explodicle 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It's not utopian; they've just slapped a new name on feudalism. It's very achievable.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It isn't achievable. AnCap belief centers around a stateless Capitalism, which is an impossible contradiction.

[–] explodicle 1 points 9 months ago

Well then to clarify, the system they describe is achievable.

[–] ZombiFrancis 2 points 9 months ago

ITT people trying to split politics from economics like they can be isolated from each other.

[–] Socsa 2 points 9 months ago

A ward or charm? No, of course not. No such things exist.

But liberal democracy, from its inception, has very intentionally been a framework for the curation of political agency and self determination, which seeks to moderate the balance between authority and liberty in government.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

capitalism is one of the least authoritarian systems if you look at what has been done in the past. its not great but its better than feudalism

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

It's a class-based system, it's inherently authoritarian.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

In the United States, there have been about 1,300 strike-related deaths. Since 1877.

41,000+ people died from gun violence in the United States last year. A tiny fraction of that was "state sponsored," i.e., police.

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