this post was submitted on 02 May 2024
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[–] [email protected] 84 points 3 months ago (5 children)

Immigration absolutely helps the US economy, because it parasitically siphons all the skilled workers out of other countries that it underdevelops and hoards their labor for itself.

People think remittances help underdeveloped countries, but labor is the superior of capital, losing that skilled labor is never worth the paltry sums that get sent back home. It's just another shape that imperialism takes.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

In Canada we heavily base immigration on education. So we're siphoning off the best educated of other countries. I mean this is just fucking those countries.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (13 children)

I get what you two are saying, but this kind of removes agency from the people doing the moving.

Also: Should people not be allowed to move to another country if they’re “too useful” or “skilled”?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

People make their own history, but they do not make it as they please. Our material conditions limit our agency. We go where the jobs are, where the money is, where the possibilities for a better future are. Those are all choices.

But you can't ignore the material conditions that lead to those choices. We aren't just free floating agents in a sea of possibilities.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Hi, one of the people that did the move: they are absolutely right. I got through uni and masters for free at federal universities, my education is amazing. My country gets nothing back because there is no industry there that'd take me and university positions are limited.

I made the bese choice for myself and am aware of how bad my choice is for home

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

People don't have free agency to move to any country they want. In my view the free agency which you say is being removed never actually existed in the first place.

But I do find it funny that "give me your poor" (yes I'm borrowing from the US) turned into "give me your elite".

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (5 children)

That's not it, but in many cases Western imperialism is involved in the conditions that made these people want to leave in the first place.

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[–] restingboredface 5 points 3 months ago

It also has a chicken-egg problem. What if the indicators of talent or skill aren't apparent because of abysmally poor living and educational conditions? The lack of opportunity in many developing countries is such that people will be less successful and appear less talented simply because their country has limited ways for them to demonstrate it.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That's truly one of the worst things about brain drain / educated people moving to the imperial core countries for the high salaries. Global south countries really need educated young people helping to solve their own problems, and Canada and the US rip out their heart and soul.

At least in tech / programming, a good chunk of us are devoting most of our labor time to not just wasteful things, but actively harmful things, like trying to get people to click on ads, or increasing viral engagement.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I mean tbf (at least in my case as an Egyptian) it's not just the high salaries. Maybe Egypt is an extreme case but this country just has no future. The regime isn't just dictatorial; it's also dumb. There's almost no money going to scientific research, the system as a whole was outdated 50 years ago, the military is monopolizing everything and undercutting the market because they can use ~~slave~~ conscript labor and don't pay taxes, etc etc. I'm firmly of the opinion that this is at least partially caused by Britain's unwillingness to fully decolonize in the 1920s and their godawful decolonization in the 1950s, but the fact remains that these countries have a duty to their people that they're not fulfilling, and that's why brain drain happens.

As a living example of said brain drain, salaries were near the bottom of my priority list when I made the decision. I was more concerned about living somewhere where I don't need to worry about being arrested because I said my opinion on the internet (or even just complained about prices) or because I do my prayers at the mosque (I was actually told by my mother to not go to the mosque all the time because I might get arrested. It's that bad). Below that were things like a sane administration that actually cares about things being even just barely functional, a decent education system and academia and the ability to have confidence that the country will actually exist in 20 years. Living in a wildly different country (especially as a Muslim in Japan as is my case (halal food is a pain to get here)) is such a pain you couldn't pay me to do it, but it's hard to turn down actually getting to have a future.

What I wanna say is that it's not just the Global South being undercut by the West; many Global South countries are failing at fulfilling their responsibility towards their constituents, and that's why they're leaving. Now how much the West was involved in creating this situation is another story, but you can't reduce it to just high salaries. Global South governments, as a rule, aren't interesting in solving their own problems. That's why the problem solvers go solve Western rich people's problems.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

Egypt is also a useful case study, because the US props up its shitty government. That's also part of how the Global South is underdeveloped, it's a multifaceted machine that sucks out everyone who can help make the country better and gives support and resources to the people making it worse. It's not just legacy from the 20's and 50's, this is an ongoing problem that is created by imperialism.

Also when a Global South government tries to solve its problems, such as through nationalizing resources or land reform, the US buries them under sanctions and attempts to make a regime change. This, too, is part of how imperialism underdevelops the Global South.

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[–] [email protected] 77 points 3 months ago

The president made the remark while arguing that Japan, along with Russia and China, would perform better economically if the countries embraced immigration more.

Oh, well that's true enough. Japan is crazy anti immigration despite that being a solution to their low birth rate.

[–] [email protected] 70 points 3 months ago (5 children)

I can't speak to Russia or China, but Japan has a history of xenophobia going back CENTURIES. It's not exactly a newsflash.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

True, also: from what I understand, Korea has been historically worse.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Even still, it's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago

That pot better be careful around police...

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

Why am I seeing multiple news reports today about Joe Biden where they remove context to polarize his comments further? This feels, to me, like a new media trend

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 months ago (2 children)
[–] Grandwolf319 4 points 3 months ago

It doesn’t need to be propaganda, just maximizing clicks will do that for you organically.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 3 months ago (3 children)

He's not wrong but also I believe there's a saying in English about stones and glass houses.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Even the most bigoted parts of the US are nowhere near as xenophobic as Japan. Housing discrimination based on race is still perfectly acceptable over there, many people will refuse to rent to foreigners.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I mean he's not wrong, but where does he expect China to get immigrants from? They're 20% of the world.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (11 children)

He's also cherry picking data. It's a weird flex.

The proportion of immigrants in the US isn't exactly high compared to somewhere like Canada.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 months ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

China xenophobic? I don’t think Biden knows what the word means. The oldest mosque outside of the Middle East is in China of all places built in 627 CE, and still standing.

What happened to the mosques in Spain and Occupied Palestine? Turned into bars and chicken coops.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Okay I hate the West as much as any other guy, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. China 1400 years ago isn't in any way the same as China today. Nowadays it's that most Muslim Chinese groups are accepted as Chinese (the Hui are about as Chinese as the Han, for example) and that's why they can practice Islam in peace; otherwise you're treated like the Uighurs. Also foreigners in China are absolutely treated as outsiders; that's just a fact.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 months ago
[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 months ago

As neat as Japan sounds and as much as I’d like to be there, I mean, he’s not wrong

I watch YouTubers who moved to and live there talk about how they’re just indefinitely treated like a tourist

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago
[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago (2 children)

As always, more projection

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (21 children)
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[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I think "extremely ethnocentric" is a more fair description/criticism of Japan. Close to 98% of their population is ethnically homogeneous, so it kinda makes sense.

[–] Jax 9 points 3 months ago

You'd be wrong

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago

Pretty much every country in the world where citizenship, nationality, and ethnicity are the same thing you find xenophobia.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Yet Japan still bows down to their masters in DC. Can Japan for once wake up along with occupied Korea?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 months ago

There are a lot of people in South Korea that hates the US and Japan way more than the DPRK or China. There are still a strong anti-US sentiment in Okinawa and near US bases in Japan, these led to the 1960 and 1970 Anpo protests in Japan.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

Partly true about inviting foreigners. Japan has a trainee visa system that is abusive, as they always are, and is designed so that those employees (victims) never get citizenship. And it's a single citizenship country, because of course it is. But hey, employers are very willing to bring in those laborers, since it's cheaper than paying what the law requires.

And you can't fix demographics with people who only stay for a year or two.

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