If it needs someone’s cloud servers to function, you don’t really own it.
this post was submitted on 11 Mar 2024
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We need consumer protections here, though.
Like 10 year money back guarantee or something. If the device becomes unusable due to actions outside of the device owners control, those in control should be obligated to reimburse.
Not doing so opens the doors to racketeering.
Not doing so opens the doors to racketeering.
That's the idea.
I mean I haven't seen it yet but for a simple example, imagine a Netflix competitor that says you just buy the device for $5,000. One time purchase. Free ad-free tv forever.
Let's say they get enough ~~subscribers~~ purchasers to profit by year 3.
Okay. Rug pull. Chapter 11. Sorry bye, thanks for all the fish.
or just install a rootkit on users’ computers …
Wow I forgot about switchfoot
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I don't think we need to set a global minimum date, but the manufacturer should have to put a date on the box. If they don't support the device up to that date (including security updates and maintaining any required cloud services) then the consumer gets a full refund with possibly additional damages.
I think of it like the digital version of a nutrition facts table.
Good idea. If we do this and also add some sort of positive label on devices that work locally and are interoperable it might start a positive feedback loop: More people become aware of the issue or simply want the device with the better label when choosing in a store, leading to more manufacturers producing more devices that aren't cloud-dependent.
Right now I often see the opposite happening: Manufacturers who don't even put on their packaging that their system is really just Zigbee under the hood for example.
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I vote for forced open sourcing of the server side components and communication protocols. That way people can create custom firmware or build support into generic NVRs
Most customers would not be able to take advantage of this because they lack the skills to do so.
You don't need every consumer to roll their own. If they're obligated to provide server code, or an API, or whatever, stuff that sells at scale can be integrated into community projects. If you buy something obscure you might have issues, but you have options if you buy something mainstream and get the rug pulled.
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This is a good place to plug* Home Assistant .
That combined with Thread/Matter ensures I own my own stuff, and they don't need to report to the cloud.
It's still a little rough around the edges, but I'd rather deal with the frustrations of bleeding edge open source than to just have tech I've built into my house expire at some company's whim.
Check out some screenshots of home assistant dashboards.
* This is not an for profit advertisement. It's all open standards, and you don't have to give anyone a dime that you don't want to. The whole point of this is to avoid vendor lock in and data collection. And to have your stuff keep working without internet.
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https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9257288?hl=en
Not only are they dropping support for it and unless someone figures out how to hack you just throw it away. But don't worry, they won't automatically cancel your subscription.... that function keeps working.
just like how reddit allows you to pay for premium if ur account is banned. Gotta have the priorities set straight.
If buying isn’t owning, piracy isn’t stealing. [yes, from the same guy who gave us “enshittification”]
Doctorow's not wrong.
from the very link you posted (emphasis mine):
As Tyler James Hill wrote: "If buying isn't owning, piracy isn't stealing"
I'd heard and used both phrases before but didn't realize they had the same author. Coincidentally, I recently reread one of his books, Little Brother, also by chance of reading about it on a Lemmy comment.
It's no surprise the author of that book has these views. I think I'll read more of his work.
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We need laws about refunds when they pull this kind of bullshit.
Or laws they have to make devices have a open API before shutting down servers.
This reminds me of how Google handled the stadia shutdown. Now many controllers have got a second life thanks to the option to enable bluetooth.
Still a limited time window for you to update the firmware before they got bricked.
They added another year to the window, in case you see one at the resale shop.
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"[Google] will give users an exclusive offer for a Self Setup System from ADT on us (up to $485 value) or $200 to use on the Google Store."
Oh shit. Google doing this right!?
They also were pretty cool when shutting down stadia, full refunds and you keep the hardware.
True. They absolutely have their faults but they do seem to be handling hardware shutdowns like this morally.
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I kind of understand that they can't offer the cloud service forever - that's OK, but I'd like there to be a local option then
I think they are selling hardware on reduced price so they can make money on cloud services. And by spying and selling customer data.
The problem is that investors want to invest in data collection, not in making new hardware and service.
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Just returned 2 Eufy cameras because the company claims ownership of my video streams and won't allow me access to those streams. Their website conveniently hides the fact that almost all of their cameras are locked to their base station or their cloud, and makes it look like the streams are readily accessible. Ultimately that means Eufy can pull the plug at any time.
Many people got wise to the printer ink racket, they'll eventually figure out these cloud services are to be avoided too.
I got burned by MyQ garage doors and JuiceBox EV chargers doing a rug pull on their cloud platform.
Never buying another piece of smart home gear that doesn’t give full local control.
Look into ratgdo if your willing to DIY. Konnected is just about to release a version of the same. More costly but konnected actually has customer service.
Opengarage is also great. You just wire it into the same ports as your garage door button and you can then connect to it via its wifi app or home assistant. Works like a champ for $50.
Same folks that did opensprinkler.
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Perhaps it should be mandatory when selling a paired hardware/software product that the user can unlock it to install their own software, and that the manufacturer provide enough basic hardware documentation for a third party to develop software that can run on it.
The EU Data Act might partially apply, it requires companies to design their products so that any data they generate is locally accessible (that was my reading of it anyway) from sept 2025 onwards.
Normalize mandatory open source when a product is no longer supported. Either we pay for a service and they Replace it free of charge or we own it properly
- stop e-waste/ longevity
- Breed innovation
- Foster community engagement
- Boost educational value
- Improve compatibility and interoperability
- Empower user customization and flexibility
Google is giving Dropcam owners 50% off on Nest Cams, but that was a hard pass from me.
Only 1 hour or local storage, cloud backups are not end to end encrypted, and you have to use Google’s services / app.
I ended up buying a little Aqara camera. Video can be stored locally on SD card or NAS, and if you’re in Apple’s ecosystem, it supports HSV. So E2EE cloud storage + no need for the manufacturer’s app.
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I have some amcrest cameras that are on PoE, save data to an SD card and aren't connected to any amcrest cloud services. They work great. They have a viewer app that I remote into my network to review, but has no cloud connectivity outside of that. I have the switch and modem (and router) on a battery backup for the rare times I lose power.
As far as I can tell this is a minimally viable passably secure system that "just works", requires no other hardware, and has local storage.
A few more steps such as a (edit: dedicated) hard drive backup, nvr and so on would be great, but my needs are currently met.
This or something like this might be of interest for someone trying to move away from highly cloud connected subscription services but who aren't ready for a more "hobbyist" setup.
It took me longer to research a quality sd card (so many fucking acronyms) than it did to install and test my 4 camera system.
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good, this shits spyware anyway. Literally in fact, it's hardware, that can be used to spy.
That's enough of my anti-consumerism bullshit for the day though.
Non-cloud cams with an nvr all the way. I won’t touch the cloud based services. My go to is currently Reolink.
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And to shut down the day of a total solar eclipse? That's extra mean.
I’m pretty sure whatever model of Nest cams I have (looks like the original drop cam style) have RSTP support… I wonder if they can be used with Frigate NVR?
I assume there’s no way to re-configure them after that deadline… but Corals are back to like 150% of MSRP ;-)
Wow, Google discontinuing something? Breaking news, unprecedented
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