Looking at global statistics the world is getting better. Not in global warming. But violence, freedom, wars, health. It's hard to see because nobody talks about it. It's easy to get stuck doom scrolling. But it's not the whole picture. We as a global society agree slavery is bad. That is a pretty new concept in the history of our species. We went from the first powered flight to space in 50 years. That is insanity. Yes, there are lots of fucked up things we caused, but ultimately I believe in our ability to figure it out eventually. Everything we do and have done, is natural. We are a product of evolution just like every other living thing on this planet.

I think our world is amazing, and that includes humanity.

Smith's argument conflates humanity and society as being the same thing, because as a machine he has no concept of individuality - to him, humans as a single unit blighted the planet, and therefore are a plague, because he can't conceive of the idea of free will.

Things can be fucked up on a macro level, with war and selfishness and greed and destruction, while still being comprised on a micro level of essentially good, unique, interesting people who care for each other. Smith doesn't see this, because in his eyes humans are all the same - just like him. He is arguing against his own existence

The older I get the more I agree with Agent Smith.

We're both. We're capable of great beauty (art and incredible scientific achievements) and terrible harms (I don't need to give examples). You're probably awesome. Some others are complete shit. Try to focus on the good and know that the bad exists. Do what you can to make the world a better place.

He said that, and then went on to replicate himself out of control; just like a virus.

We're just animals. We have so much ego we pull ourselves out of the animal basket

Dinosaurs were animals, ruled longer than us. Sharks even longer. We're not that special.

Good humans suffer from the evil of others because they're too forgiving. That's tragic, but not damning.

Trees also spread all over the planet and changed the atmosphere. Were just returning the favour.

Smith was right

his argument is never very good.. viruses are incomplete beings in every sense we care about.. the human being shares almost nothing in common with them conceptually.. we cooperate and care about each other in ways that are obviously not virus-like.. even when we fight, it's much more interesting than virus combat..

I find my perspective changing a bit as I age. As a species I still think we are a net negative, at the very least since industrialisation started. But no cog in the wheel individual holds responsibility for the species. The big decision makers, the big polluters, yes that's different. And I think it's our duty to hold them accountable as much as we can. Obviously the system is stacked against accountability. Difficult position to be in and no easy answers.

On an individual level tho there are also a LOT of humans who do a lot of good. Collecting plastic, renaturalising wilderness, combating the various poverty related issues, improving medical procedures, advocating for human rights, inventing new ways to connect and learn... There's a very long list.

For myself, I'm chronically ill. I can do some limited waste reduction, attempt as ethical a consumption as possible and love my rescue cat. I don't have the energy for much more. But I've found it helps to follow people and focus on projects that do good rather than what can't be helped. If you have the ability and capacity to volunteer or donate all the better. Holding yourself accountable and living the best life you can life is really all you have control over after all.

“Objective worth” is a bit of an oxymoron, because worth is up to your value judgment.

If you’re questioning the “evolutionary imperative” that organisms want to pass on genes - one fairly human trait is that a lot of us can consciously diverge from that instinct, either fulfilling that need by passing on our legacies socially rather than genetically, or just not looking to pass anything on at all.

Something we have in common with other mammals is we prioritize whatever experience is in front of us. Anyone who’s directly affected by catastrophes and strife will have different beliefs than people who aren’t.

So if objective worth has no neat answer, what’s left?

I’d say it’s interesting to have so many different subjective experiences in one world, with a language-based society able to communicate and share many more varied experiences than most animals. Interesting isn’t inherently good or bad, but if nothing was good nor bad then nothing would be interesting.

So yea. Human life is entertaining. We’ve got that going for us!

P.S. If you’ve ever lived in a city whose infrastructure is strained by overpopulation, you don’t necessarily view declining/shifting populations as a bad thing.

humans are only species that is trying to use birth control to midigate the issues. Only wanted children should ever be born. GOP are the blight trying to cause mass growth for no end. Societies shrinking is not a problem as automation will replace the humans doing the menial work like it has for last hundred years. No need to replace manpower that is not needed longterm. We are just getting to our proper steady state to be more balanced. Any pack animal will wage war over resources. Look at ants, those things even farm and enslave.

There's no reason why we should be, we just are. Like everything else.

We're worth it.

The universe is a dazzling beautiful place and we exist to observe it. We should definitely focus on living in a more compatible manner but even in our current shitty state we're a net positive.

This is true only if you look at the news and look at it from an anthropocentric point of view. Humans being horrible for the environment doesn't mean we can actually erase all life on Earth, it means we can change it enough that it will no longer support US, but life continues at its own rhythm, we are oarr of that rhythm, not separate from it.

Same with things like aggression. Aggression is the base behavior for carnivorous animals, but it is not for humans. One of the ways I'm which we mark the age of humanity is by looking at the oldest remains of a human which a healed leg fracture, a human that could could not contribute to their band and only could have survived with the help of other humans, compassion for unrelated others is a himan-only trait.

Are agent's Smith's words true? Yes, but incomplete, he is taking a few humans to characterize us all, but there is more to humanity than its animal behavior. This is what the movies are about.

@cmeu there's a book you might like called The World Without Us that you might find helpful.

It's a thought experiment written by a journalist about what exactly would happen to everything in the world if humans disappear tomorrow.

Do you think it's inherently human nature to be this way or do you think there are other ways for humans to be? Maybe you're conflating human nature with something else, like capitalism.

All of life does that same thing, we are just more powerful than most species. We are also more responsible and restrained than most species. If you think life is a good thing, well, that's what life does.

And none of that is a excuse for us to not improve, of course. With great power, and etc.