this post was submitted on 13 Jan 2024
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Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said the reelection of former President Trump would be the “end of democracy” in an interview released Saturday by The Guardian.

“It will be the end of democracy, functional democracy,” Sanders said in the interview.

The Vermont senator also said in the interview that he thinks that another round of Trump as the president will be a lot more extreme than the first.

“He’s made that clear,” Sanders said. “There’s a lot of personal bitterness, he’s a bitter man, having gone through four indictments, humiliated, he’s going to take it out on his enemies. We’ve got to explain to the American people what that means to them — what the collapse of American democracy will mean to all of us.”

Sanders’s words echo those President Biden made in a recent campaign speech during which he said that Trump’s return to the presidency would risk American democracy. The president highlighted the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the Capitol in an attempt to cement a point about Trump and other Republicans espousing a kind of extremism that was seen by the world on that day.

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[–] [email protected] 160 points 10 months ago (1 children)

He's right. Of course, this won't stop "BOTH SIDES" fans, who want fascism in America more than anything else in the world.

[–] [email protected] 97 points 10 months ago (43 children)

They are moving away from “Both Sides” and starting “Biden supports genocide.” It’s just a new way for below average people to think they’re smarter than everyone else.

[–] [email protected] 87 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Biden does support Genocide, in this particular instance. Giving him hell for it and trying to do what people can in order to save all the innocent people getting bombed and shot right now, is fine.

Trump is still infinitely worse. If you think 20,000 dead Gazans is bad, wait until you see what Trump wants to do. Last time around, he fucked up the response to a global crisis that's currently killed over a million Americans, and that was without even trying; and without any of the vengeful things he's itching to do this time around if he gets in.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Yes, I think the main issue is (sadly), I don't think we have an option that actually wants to stop the genocide. It would likely need to be handled by something other than elections, like larger protests.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 months ago

America and Israel are joined at the hip. Anything less than unconditional military support is not a political position conducive to getting elected, there is intense lobbyism going on to make sure of that. Then there is also the evangelical angle that the jews must control Israel for the rapture to come, so they don’t give two shits about genocide.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 months ago

That mother fuckers incompetence is going to kill millions on millions as well as any hope for America's future. Fucking Nero while Americans burn

[–] Socsa 13 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (35 children)

The salient point here that so many people are missing is that allowing Trump to be elected because of some misguided ideological purity will absolutely do nothing to protect or liberate the Palestinian people, so why even pretend to care about that, if you aren't a right wing troll? Allowing far right demagogues to usurp control of western nations will, in fact, cause untold suffering of billions. Palestinians included.

If you are an actual leftist, then it is your duty to consider this moral liability, and soak in the discomfort of the situation with the rest of us. Ideological purity does not cleanse you from this, not matter how much you wish that.

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[–] Socsa 51 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (153 children)

The "Genocide Joe" shit is so obviously right wing astroturfing I legitimately cannot read it without imagining trump sitting at a computer typing with his index fingers.

To be very clear - there are some very big issues with the military support of Israel which should discussed out in the open. But doing the Trump name calling thing isn't engaging in good faith. It's obvious trolling.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 10 months ago (4 children)

"I have serious objections to American foreign policy not being aggressive enough against genocide even when committed by geopolitical allies."

"Let me take the exact course of action that will put power into the hands that gave the particular genocidal state I'm ostensibly so upset with at this moment the Golan Heights, West Jerusalem, and significant chunks of the West Bank."

"I am a very smart person!"

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 10 months ago (19 children)

If Biden doesn't want people saying the he supports genocide, he should stop supporting genocide.

When a centrist Democrat breaks out the insults, it's a surefire indicator they can't defend their positions on their merits. And since genocide is indefensible, insults are all centrists have. Not that they've ever had much else.

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[–] [email protected] 117 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Lmao the Guardian source article made me double take on the first paragraph:

That big B looks as if it doesn't just apply to the first line.

Bernie Sanders sweeps into his state office in Burlington, Vermont, Bitching to get on with our interview. When I try to break the ice by Basking the US senator how he is, he replies gruffly, “Good,”

[–] [email protected] 58 points 10 months ago (1 children)

🅱️itching to get on with the interview,

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[–] kboy101222 43 points 10 months ago

🅱️motion

[–] [email protected] 30 points 10 months ago

🅱️asking

[–] [email protected] 30 points 10 months ago (2 children)
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[–] [email protected] 26 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Bernie Sanders sweeps into his state office in Burlington, Vermont, Bitching to get on with our interview. When I try to break the ice by Basking the US senator how he is, he replies gruffly, “Good,”

Such a Bernie response. I love him.

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[–] [email protected] 110 points 10 months ago (1 children)

If he is even allowed to run it means The Constitution is just optional.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 101 points 10 months ago (4 children)

That already happened in 2010 with Citizens United, and the late Justice John Paul Stevens' dissent nailed it:

"A democracy cannot function effectively when its constituent members believe laws are being bought and sold."

[–] [email protected] 30 points 10 months ago

That's one part of it. This is a good read: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/america-is-not-a-democracy/550931/

“The preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.”

The worst part about all of this is, imo, we've known what the problems are for so long now, but nothing is getting fixed and the rot is apparent. I grew up in America, but seeing what it is becoming from the outside is heartbreaking.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 10 months ago

I would've added,

"If money didn't influence elections, why are people spending so much on them?"

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[–] [email protected] 69 points 10 months ago (36 children)

Voters should have never been put in this position. If we have to depend on Joe Biden and Dems to clutch out the win and save Democracy then you might as well start bracing for the worst. "Not being Trump" is low bar a dangerous way to try to win.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 10 months ago (2 children)

He has done a pretty solid job, and has passed some good legislation. If it weren't for this whole funding Israel's horrific war crime thing, I'd have no qualms giving him more time to clean shit up.

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[–] [email protected] 65 points 10 months ago

In fairness to the Senator, Trump also loudly and proudly says this all the time.

[–] [email protected] 57 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 19 points 10 months ago (1 children)

And still, half of America probably is like: "don't threaten me with good times".

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (6 children)

If all it ever took was one bad president then democracy has already ended and it was always just a matter of time.

This reminds of the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy when it describes a planet ruled by reptiles:

[It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..." "You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?" "No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people." "Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy." "I did," said Ford. "It is." "So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?" "It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want." "You mean they actually vote for the lizards?" "Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course." "But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?" "Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in.]

👆 This Douglas Adams bit is the exact situation we find ourselves in now.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 10 months ago (2 children)

One big lesson from Trump's presidency was that many of the rules we thought constrained politicians were only "Gentlemen's Agreements." They held up because everyone agreed to abide by them. When Trump walked in, refused to abide by them, and wasn't immediately struck by the political equivalent to lightning from heaven, all the politicians on the right decided that they could toss those pesky rules aside also.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] prole 20 points 10 months ago

Except he's not running, and is too old to run again. So do the next best thing and listen to what he's fucking saying. This is not a joke.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 10 months ago

100% correct.

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