Union busting is as American as apple pie.
this post was submitted on 15 Jul 2023
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The first recorded recipe for apple pie was written in 1381 in England.
An import thriving in the US? That is about as American as it gets.
I also came here to say this. Also I hear "Dutch apple pie" a lot, but never "American apple pie". "American Pie" though, that I hear occasionally 😉
How can we change this?
By unionization..... The stronger the labour force is, the less they are able to get pushed around like this.
Well yes. My question is how can we change union busting, because that’s what the article is about.
By unionizing.
To afford good lawyers in order to fight back, unions need money, which requires more members to pay union dues.
To keep politicians honest and to credibly threaten their electibility, unions need more members that can be politically mobilized.
It's a feedback loop. The more people unionize, the more powerful unions become and the more powerful unions become, the more they can protect people who unionize.
If all the employees are in a union, you can’t get rid of all the unions without getting rid of all the employees.
Well we did it once back in the Appalachian mountains.....
Zing!
Get everyone to do it. Division is the enemy.
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That is such clear retaliation that I don't know how Google hopes to get away with it.
Well the penalty is a slap on the wrist to a company of googles side.
The cost of doing business
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How does a contract union even work? Isn't the whole point of contractors that it's a less binding temporary position that can be terminated if needed?
Most contracts are through contract companies, who then employs (ala W2) the workers.
I could see all tech workers that work for these companies forming a union—that could make a real, honest change in the tech workforce overall.
Surprised this wasn’t talked about in the article or anywhere else in the comments. I feel like it doesn’t make sense for contractors to unionize during a contract job as that would change the terms of the contract.
Many contractors for Alphabet companies do functionally the same work as employees yet get paid a fraction with a fraction of the benefits. Several friends of mine who are contractors and employees have affirmed that the work contractors do is for the most part very similar and both agree that this is a fucked up situation for the contractors.
Think of it like gig economy drivers who are frequently exploited for 'contract based work' when the reality is that this is a full time job for many drivers in everything but pay.
Contracting isn't always that cut and dry. Different industries and sectors of employment can use it for indefinite employment, and as such, many people can end up relying and hoping for longest possible work. I.e., USA Federal Contracting. Creating a union to protect workers and fight for financial fairness isn't something that Contractors should be excluded from -- it is still work after all. And in the case above-mentioned the actual workers do not negotiate with the contract issuer, but the middleman, a contract company -- human capital.
That's interesting, my company takes a different approach, if we don't go contract to hire in a year, we choose a new person to fill the role.
I wasn't mentioning it as a preclusion, more as a how the heck would they expect a tech union to work. The Screen Actors Guild (SAG) is an example of a union for contractors, but that's more nice role as the positions are very difficult to fill for and the roles often can't be reasonably replaced. Tech workers though, that pool is HUGE. If you had a tech union it would need to contain a significant portion of 8% (26,000,000) of the US population. It would seem they would lack the bargaining power as they're easily replicable. Perhaps if you were unionizing inside a single company that provided contractors you could destroy their workforce by all walking at once, but google doesn't need to fire these people, they can just terminate the contract with the company that provides them.
If the contractors were employees, there would be a massive lawsuit incoming (may be anyway) as the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) protects the rights of employees to organize and join unions, but it generally does not cover independent contractors.
California seems to have some at-will variances for unions but it's still listed as employees. Should be interesting to see this play out.
If you had a tech union it would need to contain a significant portion of 8% (26,000,000) of the US population.
Sounds like it's time to start organizing the people that can actually do the work, as little as 10% of those people unionizing will improve the situation of EVERYONE that does tech work.
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Every major contract I've worked on has has a union presence.
How does a contract union even work?
It works because a company far too transparently pretends that "contractors" aren't employees. I also helps to prove to be BS when the "company being contracted to" sets the rules of employment and decides who is a suitable "contractor" and who is not.
In my little experience, I assume, now that they’ve formed a union they can collectively bid on contracts as a shop and ask for a prevailing wage to complete it.
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These fucking companies. We need more unions. I wish I was in a union.
Why wish when you can start the process yourself?
Aflcio.org/formaunion
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Ya, that's a lawsuitin
I find it hard to believe that the workers didn't see this coming....
They're contractors. They're not permanent employees. They can, generally, be let go at any time for any reason whatsoever - or no reason at all. It's crap, but they're some of the risks of being a contractor. The benefits of higher pay, choose your own hours, choose your own workplace, etc have to be weighed against said risks.
It's a bit misleading. They're not private contractors but employees of a different company instead. The union busting in the US is pretty extreme. I just hope these people can put their talents to work in a company that doesn't have so many issues complying with the rule "don't be evil".
Yeah Google is well known for employing "contractors" which is just really a way for them to avoid any of the annoying regulations you have with actual employees, by having them be employed by a third party but really they're just working for Google full time. Also looks better on the balance sheets.
There have actually been a few cases that have made it through the courts that apply "employee" status based on how the company treats the worker rather than how they're paid.
Especially in cases where the worker is on long-term assignment somewhere like Google.
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