this post was submitted on 04 Dec 2023
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[–] [email protected] 50 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (13 children)

Yeah... they call it that cuz the same principle applies to vehicle engine cooling.

Air cooling is not as effective as water cooling, but just take a look at beetle engines made more than half a century ago, they're all air cooled and still up and running. It's all in the design, if it's good and overengineered, it will pracatically run forever.

Too bad nothing nowadays is meant to run more than 5 years.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 11 months ago (5 children)

they had a tendency to overheat in hot conditions, and when stuck in traffic. this is because they need a certain amount of air flowing in order to cool properly.

they also weren't very good for heat in the winter.

air cooling is a simpler system, and as such has less to go wrong with it. that doesn't make it better or worse. there are pros and cons to both systems.

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[–] IrateAnteater 29 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Too bad nothing nowadays is meant to run more than 5 years.

Where do people keep getting this from? Cars today tend to last far longer anywhere where winter is a thing.

As for air cooled vs water cooled engines, the power output (and vehicle mass) has to be part of that conversation. Yes air cooling works on on a 25 HP motor, but it doesn't work so well on modern engines making an order of magnitude more power.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago

Honestly people give old vehicles (or old anything) way too much credit. It's survivor bias, only the good stuff lasted this long. The shitty products have all been recycled multiple times by now. I mean think about it, 100,000 miles used to be an old-ass car back in the day, but for anything post 1990 or so that's just getting started. Don't get me wrong, I admire the simplicity and repairability of old vehicles

[–] Socsa 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You have clearly never lived with an old air cooled VW engine and dealt with it overheating in traffic.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

Or going uphill

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (4 children)

If you genuinely think that those old engines are still running on original parts. Then I don't know what to say, because you wouldn't understand any of it.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Air cooling is a lot less complex than water cooling, so there are fewer points of failure. If both can do the job, I'll pick reliability over efficiency every time.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

Air cooling is not as effective as water cooling,

It's not that simple because air cooling in pcs today means a heatpipe. A heatpipe uses fluid (such as water under a vacuum) that boils at a low temperature. The phase transition of liquid to vapor transfers hundreds of more times heat than simple conduction of cold water running over the CPU.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthalpy_of_vaporization

It's how refrigerator compressors work to cool things so effectively. The genius of a heat pipe is it works without an electric compressor ( this limits it's cooling ability but it's still genius).

So a heatpipe CPU air cooler with a 120mm radiator will outperform a water-cooler with a 120mm radiator in almost every situation. The advantage of water-cooling is you can make that radiator huge (280mm is typical today), and place it on one of the side/top panels of the case where air is cool instead of deep inside where the air is hot.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Similarly it's actually easier to fuck up the design of a water cooler than an air cooling system. Notably motherboard warp can happen from an improperly set up water cooling.

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 11 months ago

Buy air cooler

Look inside

Water

[–] [email protected] 27 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

If you live somewhere that's consistently 98-100% humidity: Air cooling is simultaneously liquid cooling.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (4 children)

And wheres that, in the occean?

[–] [email protected] 24 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)

So basically, in the ocean then.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago

Another decade or two and you can lose the basically.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Personally I just like the lack of difficulty in air cooling. And air cooling can also be very quiet. I have a case with soundproofing inside, and my PSU and GPU fans only spin up when they get hot enough to justify it. The noise level is so low as to be imperceptible. My dog breathes louder.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You have my attention. Tell me more about your dog

[–] [email protected] 83 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

  • His name is Sherlock.
  • He's a year old.
  • He weighs about 70 pounds/~32 kg.
  • He's a mix adopted from a local shelter. Google Lens calls him a Dutch Shepherd. Might have a little pit in him. Gonna get a DNA kit for him.
  • He has XXXL ears. Everyone comments on how oversized his ears are.
  • He gives the softest, sweetest kisses.
  • He does not like walks or new people or new places.
  • He loves other dogs.
  • He doesn't understand the cat. Or his boundaries.
  • He pooped in the car once.
  • If left to his own devices, he will eat all the grass in the yard. The concept of not eating too much fiber at once is one he can't digest.
  • Despite not loving new people, he does warm up to you fairly quick. It took 20 minutes of my in-laws being around before he got lovey dovey on them.
  • He doesn't like bones that much. He'd rather have a cloth toy he can pull apart thread by thread.
  • His two favorite places in the world are 1) Daycare, and 2) Wherever mom is sitting. I'm the spare lol
  • I wanted to name him Rye Bread because of the color of his coat. My sister in law has a dog named Tater and my brother's dog is named Biscuit so I thought going with the theme of carbs would be cute. But he responds to Sherlock and that just makes handling him a million times easier so we stuck with that.

Here he is peeping out the window with the aforementioned cat:

[–] [email protected] 25 points 11 months ago

10/10 quality dog content

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago

Your wish is my command

But that's it. Not gonna overstay my welcome on this lol

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

Oh my god he looks so much like my family's dog (rip Lady) some years back. Mix of German Shepherd, American pitbull and amstaff.

Take good care of Sherlock, he seems like a very special and good boy <3

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

CPU AIO's are awesome, all the benefits of water cooling with none of the hassle.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Can you tell me more about your case and noise insulation? I've recently been unhappy with my PC's noise level and I'm looking for upgrades.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's the windowless version of the Fractal Design Define R5. The panels are all lined with padding to reduce noise. I have a single Noctua NF-F12 moving air through it. It's capable of spinning to 2,000 RPM if needed, but it never gets hot enough inside to ever spin faster than 1,200. Even at full speed, the fan is still very tolerably quiet. I only bought the ippc version because it wasn't brown and brown.

Also, the CPU is a 4790K cooled by a Noctua NH-U9B SE2. It's a 92mm cooler that fit nicely in my old "Optimus Prime we have at home" case. It has two fans on it that run at a constant 900 RPM. It does a great job keeping heat in check at stock clock, but I wouldn't trust it in an overclock situation on this CPU.

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[–] ultimitchow 4 points 11 months ago

Not OP but I went on my own crusade against noise a few years ago. I had a ryzen 1600 and a 1070 in an NZXT S340 case using the included case fans. I wanted to get rid of noisy components entirely instead of using any kind of sound isolation or insulation because I thought it would be easier to get rid of the problem at the source than to try to hide it. I replaced both case fans with be quiet shadow wings 2s and got a be quiet dark rock 4 to replace the stock CPU cooler. My CPU never used more than 100w but the new cooler was rated for 200w. I thought it would be quieter to have an oversized cooler for my CPU since a bigger cooler would need a slower fan speed to get rid of the same amount of heat as an appropriately sized cooler. I also got a 850w power supply with a mode that turns off the fan completely if it's using less than 200w. My whole tower used around 300w when playing the games I normally played and around 100w or less while doing light work. I tweaked the fan curves of everything so temps stayed under 50C with light loads and all my fans stayed at about 900rpm. Every fan got faster and louder while gaming but I didn't notice or care since it was quieter than the sounds and music of the games. After I got all my new fancy fans my 8TB internal HDD became by far the noisiest thing in my whole set up so I built a NAS with hand-me-down hardware and put all my spinning rust storage in a different room. Since then my only upgrades have been a bigger SSD and a ryzen 5800X CPU.

In the dead of night when the whole house is quiet my own breathing is louder than my PC 2 feet away on the desk if I'm not gaming.

[–] brown567 22 points 11 months ago (12 children)

Air cooling is just radiative cooling with extra steps

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago

Well yes. It is. Liquid cooling does have merits. I won't say it's better than air cooling in a general sense; at the end of the day, the heat ends up in the air.

With liquid cooling, you can transport it further, use larger radiators.... The list goes on.

My key point is that as long as the components get cooled, who cares which you use? Do what you want.

[–] hissingmeerkat 14 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Air cooling is just vacuum cooling with extra steps.

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[–] Socsa 14 points 11 months ago

The whole point for AIO water loops is that you have more flexibility in radiator placement. For advanced systems you can beat static copper tubes pretty easily by moving more water.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Water cooling at what kind of scale? Since you can engineer a system with the final heat exchanger to the environment stuck in a river. Is that air cooling with extra steps?

If we're talking PC's though, yes. You're right.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Some guy once built a geocooled system back in I think 2010, just to cool quad SLI 580s. He had some crazy 6-screen Sony FW900 setup with a fresnel lens.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago

Idk, needs more steps, put a Peltier in it, a heat exchanger with a second loop, and don't forget the compressor for extra chill.

And also make it so that the end radiator doesn't radiate heat into the air but into the ground instead, so that it won't be just air cooling with extra steps.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

Unless you're in a boat, in which case you're likely using a water to water heat exchanger.

[–] scottmeme 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Have you seen what Linus did with his pool lmao

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Common mistake, you're thinking of the goodwill he used to have with his audience that he shit in.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

Oh, so that's what I taste whenever I watch those videos now...

It's shit.

... Never ate shit before, so I had no idea that is what it tastes like.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I am not a gamer so my fans only spin up when the vents clog with dust or I am doing some high end rendering. I'd never do water cooling because a leak could kill everything. I have lived through floods.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

Bought water cooler when I built it. That was five years ago. No problems so far.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago

Ground-source water-water heat pumps have entered the chat

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago

Air cooling is just an intermediate product of nuclear fusion

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

By extension, air cooling is global thermal mass cooling, which, by extension is radiative cooling, which by extension is universal entropy cooling or whatever you'd call that.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (1 children)

THERE IS, AS YET, INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

Thanks Multivac!

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