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At least five states are considering requiring full minimum wages for tip earners this year
(www.nbcnews.com)
this post was submitted on 07 Jan 2024
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Tipping is, by definition, not required.
'They need you to do it' versus 'you need to do it.'
Stupid word game.
Tipping is "not required" the way that not cheating on an SO is "not required". No, you're not going to get arrested for it, but that doesn't make it okay.
This is more like someone I barely know and never agreed to be in a relationship with getting upset about me seeing other people.
If you agree to monogamy, it's cheating and unethical for sure. If you don't agree to monogamy, cheating isn't even possible lol.
So if I agree to pay the listed price of an item and then I pay for it in full...
But you did decide to walk into a restaurant and order, knowing full well that the employees there currently require tips to survive, yes? And you also understand that your single act of not tipping one person doesn't change societal convention, it only hurts that individual worker?
Your analogy is fraught. Let me revise it for you:
I never consented to any of it. And no, I don't know what the servers make. I only know what I made as one at a specific restaurant like 15 years ago. My uncertainty is even more pronounced when I'm on vacation in an area I've never worked as a server.
Can you please just let me know the actual price so I can agree to pay it or not. I just want all the information so I can make a decision. How much is the cheeseburger that says $10 on the menu? Ffs I'm hungry.
But no, it's like you're afraid to give an actual price because you don't want to risk limiting the hypothetical maximum you can scam out of some sucker.
I have also worked as a server, briefly, at a corporate establishment. For each well paid server there is certainly one not making enough money.
You’re still not getting the point: you choose to eat at a restaurant. If you’re just hungry and out of time and don’t feel like tipping, you’re able to patronize somewhere where the majority of the employees wage does not come from tips. Yes, every fast food place has those rip screens now and most people are ignoring them. I’m not talking about fast food employees, I’m talking about Jan at Bob’s greasy spoon diner or Tim at Chili’s.
So, are you really arguing for using a server’s labor without compensating them for it?
I'd just like to know the price of a '$10' cheeseburger so I can make an informed decision. You're refusal to state the actual price tells me everything I need to know.
And I'm not buying any of the servers labor, I'm buying a cheeseburger. The only business relationship I have here is between me and the business owner selling cheeseburgers. The only reason I came here is that I'm hungry for a delicious cheeseburger.
Are you really arguing about this from a device produced within a system where people in sweatshops get paid far less than servers and without even any possibility of tips? You must see the irony a bit...or did you somehow tip the sweatshop kids when you bought your phone/laptop? Or did you assume the entire chain of people who produced the device are paid fairly? I mean, sure, maybe they are (as unlikely as that is). But it's going to take a whole lot of research to determine that or even come close to determining.
More than anything, I'd really just like to know how much currency I need to exchange for one cheeseburger listed on the menu for $10... but since the menu can't be trusted. I'm asking, please, how much is that cheeseburger?
No, friend, we all know that the system right now is unethical. We all struggle to do what we can with what we have. The only reasonable solution to me is to consume as little as possible, repair things and buy things second hand.
Either you are:
Buying your cheeseburger at a fast food place, where a server's labor isn't required. I'm not talking about this.
Using a server's labor (taking your order, busing your plates, refilling your drinks, taking up a table in the server's section that prevents someone else from being seated who may require more work). Then, if you choose not to tip, you're deciding the server makes "enough" for their efforts. Best case scenerio, you are freeloading off other patron's tips.
I am currently a tipped employee (not in the restaurant industry. I work at a casino. Edit: My situation is totally different, my job is dumb and I'm part of a tip pool.). I'll say it here: The system is bad and tipping shouldn't exist. Ugly people and racial minorities make less money from tips than traditionally attractive, neurotypical white people. It's a bad system, full stop. This doesn't mean you should just decide to not tip if you go to a restaurant that employees servers for 2.13 + tips. The most ethical choice is to not patronize that restaurant. If you do anyway (as we all do, living is pain), you should tip. Not tipping isn't going to change anything. It's just make life worse temporarily for that server, who might be agonizing what they did to piss you off.
I'm more than happy to not patronize the restaurant if I find the total price is unreasonable and I'm not willing to pay it. Unfortunately, I am only able to do so if someone tells me the total price of the cheeseburger. Why are you so unwilling? This is the third time I've tried to get an answer now.
And I honestly don't think I've ever in my life been to a restaurant where the server made $2.13 or lower, but I have no way of knowing that with certainty. In any case, I'd rather not participate in a system that 'is bad and shouldn't exist' and as you pointed out is discriminatory/racist. And since it's completely optional, the most ethical option for me to take seems the only one that does not encourage the system at all.
But hey, you might just be morally superior to me. Casinos, after all, provide an important and definitely non-exploitative service to society. And those 'customers' definitely owe you a tip.
Apparently I haven't been clear: Tipping is a bad system. It should be abolished. Employee wages should be priced into the menu. I have lived overseas where this was the case, it works fine.
You are misunderstanding: I am saying that while this is the system here in America, you should either tip, or not go to restaurants where tipping is expected. I am not arguing that the system is good, I am arguing your response to the system is bad. It seems you have encountered a bad thing and you are using it's badness to justify other bad behavior.
You have. Trust me. This is how restaurants operate in the USA (edit: no server should be taking home less than minimum wage, restaurants are required to make up the difference in tip shortfall. Minimum wage is too low in all states. Failure to follow tip credit laws is one of the #1 sources of wage theft). They might not get away with exactly 2.13 any more, but the majority of restaurants here in the USA pay less than minimum wage. I work at a casino, and the dealers are paid less than minimum wage by the casino (they start around $5/hr). Google the phrase "tip credit" for more info.
Somehow I've managed to find a way to make a living wage, thus my argument is invalid.
I am tipped, if I made less I would quit, because my job is pretty bullshit and is unfulfilling, you got me. I'm also going to college part time so I can get out of this situation.
It's a shame. If I quit, the casino would surely close, it's all my fault it's around. Sorry folks :(
It's okay to not to tip for normal service.
Tipping is supposed to be done for extraordinary service, above the call of what the employee is normally required to do for the customer.
If the employee is not earning enough then that's a matter for between the employer and the employee to resolve, not the customer.
Unfortunately that's not the reality in full service restaurants in the US, where I live. Servers are reliant on tips to live. The practice is pervasive. I don't know of a single non-tipped full service restaurant in my city.
As someone who lives in the US and was actually at a full service restaurant just last night, I can't agree, just depends on the place/region.
Also, if you are basing your existence on just the goodwill of others, that's not a smart or healthy way to live.
Really get tired of repeating the same points over and over again, so I'll just leave it as "everyone is the captain of their own ship", metaphorically speaking.
From all I've heard, wait staff actually like tipping because, if you're good, you can make a decent amount of money that way.
I personally would love to get rid of the tipping culture in the US, as I think we've passed a point where tips are just being asked for in far too many places, but the idea that tipping is bad for waitstaff is something I think they might, on a whole, disagree with.
And where are you in the US where tipping at a full service restaurant is not customary?