this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2023

248 points (77.1% liked)

World News

38262 readers

2963 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]

Recommendations

How to spot Misinformation and Propaganda

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

248

Hamas terrorists fire anti-tank missile at IDF troops from Gaza hospital entrance (www.ynetnews.com)

submitted 9 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

406 comments fedilink hide all child comments

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[–] [email protected] 14 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

It doesn't give them the right to bomb the hospital point blank period, proportionality clauses kick in and it's arguably reason to ground assault it but they cannot ignore the civilian cost of life when they're are other ways to go about clearing the garrison.

Ed: Jesus Christ, 3 seconds on Google prior just can't seem to do.

The principle of proportionality prohibits attacks against military objectives which are “expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated”. In other words, the principle of proportionality seeks to limit damage caused by military operations by requiring that the effects of the means and methods of warfare used must not be disproportionate to the military advantage sought.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Unfortunately as soon as they garrisoned it it became a legitimate military target and yes, they literally now have a right to bomb it. Level it, no, you are right on a proportional response and that would still be a war crime, but bombing what is now a legitimate military target prior to any invasion (like any other military target) can absolutely be justified.

Hamas knows this, and are deliberately trying to put the global blame on Israel when THEY GARRISONED A FUCKING HOSPITAL.

[–] prole 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Lol "garrisoned". This isn't Age of Empires. Gaza is one of the most densely populated area on the planet. They have no freedom of movement, and the area is completely blockaded. Anywhere anyone in that area tries to stage a defense is a "civilian area." They're literally prohibited from having anything else.

So there is nowhere they could defend from that you wouldn't consider "human shield."

But you know that.

Edit: Corrected. Because fascist apologists love getting honest interlocutors hung up on semantics. I misspoke, and it's "just" one of the most densely populated areas. Because that changes my argument in any real way whatsoever.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Uhh... military forces holding a building and using it as a base is literally called a garrison.

[–] prole -2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I know what the word means. If you want to get all semantic about it, Hamas isn't a "military force," they're an insurgency. I'm not sure an insurgency "garrisons".

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

As the elected representative of Palestine they are indeed a military force, operating in a state to state conflict. Like the taliban in Afghanistan - they are the controllers of the country, no longer an insurgency. How "good" they are, morally or militarily, is irrelevant.

Its like saying the US of A is actually an insurgency because they toppled the British government and established their own. Nope - government.

How fair the elections were is up for debate, and how they stopped elections but they are thr government of Palestine.

Furthermore, why are you bring up that I'm being semantic with a word that you had a problem with using?

[+] Apollo -7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Gaza is not even close to being the most densely populated area on the planet, what is your source for that?

Also have you seen a map of gaza? There are many open areas hamas could use to launch attacks from, but it chooses (rather rationally I might add) to site its materiel in places where israeli retaliation will cause civillian casualties.

[–] prole 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I apologize that I forgot to add "one of the" before "most." The point still stands.

Oh, you looked at a map of Gaza, and because of that you are an expert on the land and you know the best strategic locations for them to set up? Fuck off.

Israel made an open-air prison, and when a group of extremists react, they bomb the entire fucking prison (strangely aiming at the hospitals, and the areas where they instructed refugees to go).

Edit: After re-reading this comment, i'd like to correct something. I don't think it's even accurate to say Israel created an open-air prison, or to call Gaza a prison. The word "prison" heavily implies that the people there did something to deserve their punishment. I wonder if anyone could let me know all the terrorist acts those Gazan children performed... Was it "throwing rocks at IDF"? Because that's usually punishable by death.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Open areas, you know! Those places everyone can see, who needs operational security when you have all that room for activities!

[–] Apollo -2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

"Rather rationally I might add" what did you take this part to mean?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Hedging doesn't change your idiotic point. No one uses open areas because.... They're open fucking areas. It's like saying "why don't you go play baseball in that lake over there."

[–] Apollo -5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Are you retarded or just incapable of reading? Do you think I said their decision to not use open areas was rational because I thought it was dumb?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

I read just fine bud, your point is still shit. It doesn't matter that there are open areas because no one would use them certainly not an insurgency that can't mass troops. It's nothing, why bring it up.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

No the fuck they don't!

You just ain't right bud, do some fucking reading before you spout Israeli talking points.

The principle of proportionality prohibits attacks against military objectives which are “expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated”. In other words, the principle of proportionality seeks to limit damage caused by military operations by requiring that the effects of the means and methods of warfare used must not be disproportionate to the military advantage sought.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Medical establishments and units enjoy protection because of their function of providing care for the wounded and sick. When they are used to interfere directly or indirectly in military operations, and thereby cause harm to the enemy, the rationale for their specific protection is removed. This would be the case for example if a hospital is used as a base from which to launch an attack; as an observation post to transmit information of military value; as a weapons depot; as a center for liaison with fighting troops; or as a shelter for able-bodied combatants.

Source - International commitment of the Red Cross. Hamas is doing all of these.

Are you telling me you know better than the biggest humanitarian organization on the planet? I have been studying this for two years, read well over 150 peer reviewed articles on conflict and the effect it has on the civilian population, and studied multiple places where International law was not followed. I've done enough fucking reading on the topic and don't need to reply with pro-anyone agenda to discuss it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossary/proportionality

The principle of proportionality prohibits attacks against military objectives which are “expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated”. In other words, the principle of proportionality seeks to limit damage caused by military operations by requiring that the effects of the means and methods of warfare used must not be disproportionate to the military advantage sought.

Same source, you know that's theres like thousands of laws in relation to war correct?

I don't know better boss, but I can use the search bar and read, you don't need much more than that to know you're objectively wrong and your source agrees.