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Egypt official tells Europe to take in 1m Gazans if ‘you care about human rights so much’
(www.middleeastmonitor.com)
this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2023
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That's rich considering how few Gazans Egypt has taken in over the years. Europe doesn't want them, true, but neither does the Arab world. Palestinians have always been at the bottom of the strata.
There's a reason that Egypt will not take them in and I understand and respect that. No hard feelings there.
"Hey stop bombing Gaza, they are not all terrorists!"
"Giving civilians refuge? But they are all terrorists!"
The duality of Palestine.
The reason is that they're assholes. They claim that they can't do it because there's no assurance of return and because they're worried about Hamas. Sorry, those are not reasons to ignore a humanitarian crisis at your border.
What would happen if Hamas started launching attacks against Israel from Egyptian soil?
Then Egypt needs to eliminate the threat of Hamas in their country.
Oh - that's not possible without collateral damage since the absolute love using civilians as human shields? Better not take them in and let Israel take the blame...
I'd hope Egypt would then work together with Israel on disarming Hamas on Egyptian soil.
By bombing Egyptian soil?
Are you saying they shouldn't take in refugees just in case Hamas attacks from Egypt because it might result in an Israeli response? Because you could make that same argument about Ukrainians fleeing to Poland. They might secretly be backing Russia. What if they launch attacks against Ukraine from Polish soil?
EDIT: I'm sorry, you can downvote me all you like, but this is a bullshit excuse to stop taking in people who are facing a genocide. Egypt sees a genocide happening on their border and, instead of letting refugees in, they say, "why can't Europe take care of it?" I'm sorry, it's bullshit. They're complicit in this genocide. They aren't the cause- the cause is Israel- but they're complicit. They're letting Gazans die.
Alright, let me ask this question. Why does Hamas exist in Palestine? Did Palestine take any steps to remove or eliminate Hamas before this war broke out?
What relevance does that have to Egypt refusing to help refugees fleeing from a genocide? Should no one take in Gazan refugees?
Because if the government of Palestine and the people of Palestine were willingly housing a known terrorist organization, I might be hesitant to let them through my country as well.
Or would you let Russians from either the occupied Luhansk or Donetsk oblast stay with you?
Well it's either be terrified of letting terrorists into your country or be complicit in a genocide. Personally, I would say 'don't be complicit in genocide.' You apparently would say the opposite.
Because it’s so simple for you eh? You are a disingenuous, bad faith actor. You know as well as I do that you would never allow your family or friends to be put at risk for either Israel or Gaza, so stop acting like you have the high moral ground here.
I absolutely would put my family at risk to help stop a genocide. How is Hamas going to even attack Israel? With what weapons? Do you think they would be allowed to bring missiles across the border with them? Do you think they would just let everyone run through without stopping them at checkpoints?
Again, it's either be afraid of a hypothetical terrorist attack or help stop an actual genocide.
Then stop armchair arguing with me on a website and go fucking help them, and take your wife and kids while you’re at it.
My god the people on this website who think they’d be so much better at things than elected officials or trained servicemembers or ems is astounding.
How would you advise I do that?
Ok? Not sure how asking you how I should help is trolling, but enjoy blocking me.
I don't live in the UK. I also don't have a spare bedroom. I would if I did. And how are Gazan refugees supposed to get to me? Because as far as I can tell, the only two countries bordering them are Israel and Egypt and neither will let them out.
At least partially because Israel saw it as beneficial.
With, let me guess, weapons Israel gave them to do it?
Seriously how do you expect people to get rid of a theocratic dictatorship, without external help, in the situation that Gaza is in.
Forced displacement of a people *is a war crime" and given the Nakba it's not such a bad idea to not give this to Israel. We've played this game before in 1948 and did any refugee from that era get to ever return home? Nope.
So Egypt can't take them because it would allow Israel to commit a war crime by displacing them, but Egypt thinks Europe should take them
Okay, then what should Gazans do, stay put and die? Because unless they're either staying put or somehow getting into Israel, Egypt sounds like their only option. Except Egypt won't allow it.
Gazans and double nationals are as we speak now at the Rafah crossing and no government was able to get them out.
What they should do is get aid and a ceasefire and an end to the blockade. There is nothing you can expect from a group of civilians dying every day under bombing. There is nothing they as a group "should do" other than try to survive and not be forced out of their homeland.
Even if they get to leave, their lives will still be shit. Once a refugee forever a refugee.
So you're basically saying Gazans should stay put and hope that there's peace before they're murdered. I see.
I'm saying that if Gazans move now, it's one extra tragedy they don't need to fucking deal with. Gazans are in this now because Israel is killing them and destroying their homes, and yet on top of that they have to also take all their shit and leave, which can only be done with great difficulty already, not to mention Israel made sure to displace 1m+ people already in the past two weeks?
You can mold this statement to whatever form you want that makes you feel better.
Every single thing Gazans are going through now is with Israel literally pulling the trigger and making the decision. I read today that one Hamas official was killed. I wondered if it was worth it? 5kcivilians dead, thousands missing, almost half of the dead are children, people buried in mass graves... was it worth killing one single Hamas fighter for this many civilians? Was it worth making a new holocaust? Was it worth committing genocide? And Israel's "only solution" with their infinite power and technology and foreign support was to bomb the shit out of them, breaking their bones under their own destroyed homes? Fuck this.
There are three things Gazans can do: Flee through Israel (never going to happen), flee through Egypt (all Egypt has to do is say yes), or stay put and die.
You are repeatedly suggesting they should stay put and die.
Actually what I'm repeatedly suggesting is that Israel stop fucking bombing them.
Israel's genocidal. Get over it.
What is a more likely scenario: Gazans get to flee Gaza or Israel stops the genocide?
This is like someone saying "Jews shouldn't leave Germany, Germans should stop the Holocaust." As if either was something that Israel or the Nazis would be willing to do.
Because, again, Gazans have three options: Flee through Israel (impossible), flee through Egypt (could be possible), or stay put and die.
There are no other options.
You would have them stay put and hope Israel says "sorry, our bad" and stops bombing them.
Also, I've been saying Israel has been perpetrating a genocide repeatedly this whole time, so what exactly do I need to get over?
What you should ask is which one is the correct one. And we all know which one that is.
What is "correct" and what will actually happen are two different things.
Do you think Israel will just say, "whoopsie! Sorry about that! We'll stop bombing you now!" I mean what, in specific, realistic terms would get them to stop doing that? Let's hear your plan. Because I told you what I think- I think there's no way to stop Israel committing a genocide so Gazans need to get the hell out of Gaza before they're all murdered and Egypt should let them.
So let's hear your plan. "Israel needs to stop the genocide" is not a plan. Let's hear what specifically you think should realistically happen and how it should happen.
If sanctions are placed on the they might.
Because sanctions have totally stopped Russia from invading Ukraine, right? And what should Gazans do while waiting for the sanctions to take effect? Stay put and hope they don't get murdered?
And what should Gazans do while waiting for the sanctions to take effect? Stay put and hope they don’t get murdered?
YES. They should seek shelter and hope Israel doesn't bomb the shit out of them.
Seek shelter where? Every place they go to seek shelter gets bombed.
Where specifically in Gaza is it safe for the population to go?
I think you missed what I was trying to say...
You said that Gazans should stay in Gaza and seek shelter. Where? Where in Gaza is safe from Israeli weapons?
I never said there are safe places in Gaza. All I said is that the tragedy would double if Israel also forces them to leave their lands...
They are not b being "allowed" to leave. They are pushed out, ethnically cleansed...
They aren't being pushed out. They can't leave. They could if Egypt would let them. You have this strange desire for them to stay put while the bombs are raining down on them. Would you tell a loved one that they just have to hope the Israelis stop?
Actually one friend of mine traveled to Gaza just some days before this all broke out and he is now stuck there despite being a double national. I would never want for his family to have to abandon their home nor to die. I don't want them to be displaced nor to be killed. I hope this is sufficiently clear. The ones killing Gazans and who can stop this all are Israel and the countries who should sanction Israel if it continues. If Gazans leave, Israel will never ever let them return. They will live a life just as shitty as the one in Gaza except they would also be ethnically cleansed and displaced on top of it.
Their options right now are be displaced or killed. You're saying killed is the better option. I don't think a home matters if you're dead.