this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2023
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Israel is a state
Judaism is a religion
If one disagrees or opposes one, they don't oppose the other. I know that Israel has managed to spin the narrative that Israel and Judaism are the same and everyone opposing the state is basically the same kind of hateful asshole Adolf was, but that's just not true. We here in Germany have struggled a long time with that for obvious reasons. You couldn't call out Israel for doing wrong shit without being called a Nazi. In that past that is. What you've seen isn't "Antisemitism". It's opposition to some of the bullshit Israel is pulling that is the very same kind of bullshit Jews have been subjected to in the past. Or tell me: What's the difference between a Ghetto in 1700s Germany and the Gaza Strip? Correct, the 1700s Ghetto had less travel restrictions.
There is a great push in Israel to be proud of the history of unjust oppression and prosecution Jews have suffered for centuries and how awful being a victim of that was. There is this sense that together, as a nation, they finally have the means to safeguard themselves against shit like that. Yet, that very same nation pulls a swift 180 when it comes to palestinians. Pushing them back into Ghettos, depriving them of any form of economical way out, depriving them of means to get their own electricity, their own water. Paying them pittances for their jobs, restricting travel for them whenever possible. Now, as soon as those people act hostile (go figure), the "state of the oppressed" Israel responds with the military. "A little bombardment will keep them in check, right? How dare they hate us?!"
If the message all the Shoa museums, all the graveyards for the people killed in atrocities was really understood, neither the "West Bank" nor the "Gaza Strip" could exist without Israelites acting up against them.
Rant over.
I agree with your conclusions but it's an oversimplification to say
Those things are very tied together, partially because no, Judaism is not just a religion. It's a culture and ethnicity as well. And given the history of how/why Israel exists, it's in the unique position of not just being any ole state.
Israel played a pretty heavy role in the creation of Hamas. It's not that simple. Here
I see what you're trying to do but that's very much a false equivalence. It's more akin to the US' role in the creation of the Taliban (among many, many other orgs)
Enlighten me, what similar situations are happening with Israel and Palestine that makes this comparison relevant? The politics and history around slavery in the US are completely different than this
Did the South have left-wing, secular parties with popular support that wanted abolition? Did the north actively suppress these parties while funding a group of religious extremists to do their dirty work and then turn on them when the arrangement wasn't convenient to them? Was the north violently oppressing the south for decades before the civil war? Did the north interfere in the elections that lead to the religious extremists gaining control of the south? Are the results of that election hotly contested to this day?
You've just made it even clearer that this comparison doesn't add up. The underground railroad was legitimized with the fugitive slave act. The more you try to force this comparison, the more obvious it becomes you don't have any idea what you're talking about. The US civil war and the problems with Israel and Palestine have little in common. Support for Palestine isn't support for Hamas. Hamas barely won the election that you're hinging your braindead takes on, the PLO and fatah still exist and would be much better options than Hamas, and between the two of them have more popular support among the people of Palestine. Israel is a fascist, apartheid state with dubious claims to the territory they occupy. They hide behind Judaism to justify their war crimes and actively promote antisemitism to conflate support for Palestine with said antisemitism. You're falling for their propaganda hook, line, and sinker.
I don't see what any of this has to do with what I wrote
So you say that you oppose Israel’s existence itself - the existence as a state, but do not hate Jews in particular, right?
Do you support the existence of an apartheid state? Yes or no answer only.
Completely off-topic, but WABBAJACK!
Try your derailing somewhere else.
Where did the poster say that?
We all know that I didn't. But they need that for some sort of strawman argument, methinks.
I know you would love it @rah 😘