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Israelis murder Palestinians, destroy their homes, attack schools and hospitals, shoot children, shoot doctors, bulldoze their refugee camps, etc etc, constantly, for decades and the world turns a blind eye.
Whenever there's an attack from the Palestinians the world loses it's shit.
Of course all deaths are bad but Israel are the oppressors here. Their actions are vile and now Netanyahu has said it's "war". If it's war now what the fuck was it before?
No one is pearl clutching over dead soldiers, but when you machine gun down several hundred music festival attendees (incl. foreign nationals), rape the women, parade their naked defiled corpses around so others can spit on them, and upload the video to share with everyone, you're going to get some international condemnation and re-evaluation of support.
Ironic since Israel has practiced "kneecapping" for years during protests. The reality of the situation is that both sides are shitty. But one of the sides gets a complete pass, while the other gets shat on and ignored.
Wait, so you're saying that bad IDF acts justify sadistically murdering hundreds of civilians at a music festival? Well, that is some beautifully circular logic, because now whatever warcrimes the IDF commits during this war, which seems likely, magically become a wash.
So when videos come out of dead Palestine kids in Gaza, I imagine you'll gladly accept the same argument when someone points back to the festival and says "It's justified because of this", right?
No. What I said is "the world is grey". Palestine has been under occupation for over 70 years. Their country is routinely attacked. The people are being locked up inside a tiny space with little prospects for the future other than Israel walking in and bulldozing everything. Then Israel has been attacked by its neighbors as well. They have a need to arm themselves to exist.
The reality is both sides are playing the entire situation shittily. You can't undo years of hurt by both countries.
You'll see that this will start a genocide of Gaza. And when those photos of dead kids start arriving, people won't care. When the death toll in civillians starts rising to unprecedented levels, people won't care.
I mean this attack very openly and clearly targeted German nationals. Its not odd for a government to oppose another government (if you can call hamas that) when they just up and kill and mutilate your citizens with impunity. Of course governments should also care about other people's being killed but frankly they can't for the most part because their interests always align with what's best for their own people and close diplomatic ties is better than aggression. You kill their people, well no amount of grandstanding will save you.
Yep, both sides just fired thousands of rockets at civilians, intentionally shot hundreds of civilians at a festival, in homes, or on the streets. Both sides kidnapped civilians, including foreign nationals, and publish torture videos, defiling bodies, etc. both sides not just kill soldiers on the other side but raid, torture, publish video defiling their bodies. Yep, same exact thing.
This “what aboutism” is as bad as the Hamas guy saying this is all just to get international attention for their plight. Yep, I see you as terrorists, and won’t object to however Israel responds, nor will I object to any support for Israel, including military. They’ve just given most of the world a reason to rally around Israel and ok whatever they do. Good strategy
Google the proportion of dead Israelis and dead Palestinians over the years. But you won't, you'll just react emotionally to everything since that's more convenient. Both sides fucking suck. Both sides have civillians that get hurt. You equate hamas to the two million people that just want to live their lives. Which is basically equal to "all brown people are terrorists". And right now, those two million people will be denied electricity, food and water and will be genocided away.
That will show you one thing only: Israel has the stronger military.
It doesn’t say a thing about who attempted to kill more civilians, and who took steps to avoid civilian deaths. It doesn’t say anything about who has made concessions for peace, and who has walked away from peace deals for almost a century.
If you think those numbers shows that Israel is the bad guy, you would absolutely shit yourself if you saw a similar chart comparing the US and Nazi Germany.
You are right, it shows the fact that Israel killed more people.
Israel is the bad guy. And so are the Palestinians. There is no black and white situation here - with one being the good guys and one being the bad guys. Israel isn't in the right here, they don't have the moral high ground. And neither do the Palestinians.
All violence in Israel and Palestine is directly caused by the Israeli apartheid. It sucks all those innocent people died, but I'm not going to feel sorry for them when they started the fight, and they continued it for 75 years.
Buddy you summed up my sentiments exactly. It feels like the whole fucking world is suffering from some form of amnesia. What do they expect the Palestinians to do, just accept their own extermination?
I mean you can fight back against your oppressors without massacring civilians, many of whom aren't even Isrealis
War is never that convenient or that easy.
I think its actually pretty easy to not do super horrible things on purpose.
Damn I sure wish the circumstances of war didn’t force hamas to shoot up a festival
What a convenient answer in defence of their actions.
"they couldn't be helped, the poor sods"
I am not sure I understand the logic behind fighting a war of extermination when the other side is stronger and can actually exterminate you
The logic is you hide within the general population and count on the other side to be “more civilized”. Or you’re enough of a sociopath to want the response to hit the general population to radicalize people just trying to live their lives
Hamas sets up military operations in a civilian building by force - the civilians have no say in this and get killed if they protest Hamas then uses that building to launch rockets, store ammunition, communication stations How the fuck should Israel proceed to neutralize those sites? Because what they do is:
“Roof knocking”: Hitting the building’s roof with a small explosive to announce that it will fall in 15 minutes (see video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teevWpXlRZY example from yesterday) Automatic SMS and phone calls impacted areas warning and urging to evacuate Precision strikes that make the building fall vertically with minimal damage to the areas As a result, civilians (and potentially military personnel) are given a chance to evacuate while ammunition stashes, rocket launching stations etc stay in the building and are destroyed.
To be honest, I’m shocked those protocols are still used after Hamas’s attack. I would absolutely not be surprised of these measures stopped.
The anti-Israel don’t care that Israel is bending over backwards to minimize human suffering while fighting a decades long war against people who are deliberately trying to kill their children.
Remember how upset they are when Israel does something 100 percent defensive, like build a security fence to keep out an endless stream of suicide bombers?
This isn’t good-faith criticism.
These people hate Israel for this that they works be applauding other countries for. And we all know why
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=teevWpXlRZY
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Point me to where Ukrainian soldiers passed the border and shot up a festival full of civilians
That's because people don't pay attention. There have been several times over the last few years where I see a story of IDF leveling an apartment block or executing a group of people, it's always hand-waved as "they were terrorists, trust me Bro I'm looking at the evidence that I can't show you for security reasons"
And the world turns.
Days later one of the victims sorry TERRORISTS stabs an IDF soldier on the street? PROOF THAT ALL PALESTINIANS ARE TERRORISTS is the gist of every news outlet.
When you move into your neighbors pool house, don't be surprised when they chase you around with a baseball bat.
Yes, it IS unfortunate that civilians get caught in the crossfire. But when one side started by targeting civilians, it's not as simple as "these guys are terrorists and the people who fight them are inherently good" like a shitload of people are trying to make it out to be.
We have no way of verifying facts and obviously there was no trial in those cases, yet they have been consistently in response to terrorist attacks.
The whole area is a shitty complex mess with a long history of violence back and forth. Claiming there’s a simple solution is just naïveté, saying Israel doesn’t have a right to respond is just stupid. I have no idea if there is a way to fix it, but I know pressuring one side to not respond to terrorism is not it
Hamas sets up military operations in a civilian building by force - the civilians have no say in this and get killed if they protest Hamas then uses that building to launch rockets, store ammunition, communication stations How the fuck should Israel proceed to neutralize those sites? Because what they do is:
“Roof knocking”: Hitting the building’s roof with a small explosive to announce that it will fall in 15 minutes (see video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teevWpXlRZY example from yesterday) Automatic SMS and phone calls impacted areas warning and urging to evacuate Precision strikes that make the building fall vertically with minimal damage to the areas As a result, civilians (and potentially military personnel) are given a chance to evacuate while ammunition stashes, rocket launching stations etc stay in the building and are destroyed.
To be honest, I’m shocked those protocols are still used after Hamas’s attack. I would absolutely not be surprised of these measures stopped.
The anti-Israel don’t care that Israel is bending over backwards to minimize human suffering while fighting a decades long war against people who are deliberately trying to kill their children.
Remember how upset they are when Israel does something 100 percent defensive, like build a security fence to keep out an endless stream of suicide bombers?
This isn’t good-faith criticism.
These people hate Israel for this that they works be applauding other countries for. And we all know why
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=teevWpXlRZY
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
It's colonizers versus natives round 1239382. The world collectives decided fuck the natives, let them fend for themselves.
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