politics
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
view the rest of the comments
I'm always skeptical of claims like this. Don't get me wrong, Trump is actively working to advance the Russian agenda, and Russia has actively supported him financially and through propaganda. But I'm wary of tales of kompromat or clandestine, decades long KGB plots.
Occam's razor, I think Trump is a piece of shit that would destroy his own country to make a quick buck, and Putin offered him a quick buck. Honestly, elaborate Manchurian Candidate conspiracies would probably be less scary than the idea that our entire democracy can collapse because one real-estate conman was willing to sell us all out.
He has almost no filter and I think if he was a secret KGB operative, that would not be a secret by now because it would have just come out at random at some point.
He's extremely malleable, loves rich people and authoritarians, and will agree with almost anyone who kisses his ass. So it's pretty easy for Putin to just wrap him around his little finger.
Sometimes pretending to be too socially stupid to be deceptive has advantages. This seems naive.
He's not pretending.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/10/12/1705902/-Former-Wharton-Professor-Donald-Trump-Is-the-Dumbest-Goddam-Student-I-Ever-Had
So what would be the difference between Trumps current behavior in destroying the US "just so" and "because he is an official GRU employee"? He is a traitor, and should be dealt with accordingly. Remember: All enemies foreign and domestic.
As someone else already said, there is functionally no difference in terms of what he's doing to our country. But if we elevate unverified nonsense about Trump being a secret sleeper agent, it makes credible evidence of Russian influence seem less credible.
There is no difference in that sense. That doesn't mean the truth is fungible.
Your logic ("I can't believe it so it's likely untrue") is flawed. "I can't believe the world is round so Occam's razor it must be flat because that I can understand."
Putin is very smart and the KGB were smart and they bested US intelligence, according to the now deleted article, not in those exact words. Why is that so implausible?
There could just as easily be other bought or compromised US officials, not just Trump. The thinking "but this couldn't really happen, it's too sneaky and complicated!" is a pretty naive counterpoint.
"I can't believe it so it's likely untrue," is a fundamental misinterpretation of what I'm saying. "There is enough evidence of a Trump/Russia connection without unreliable sources," would be more accurate.
Believing unverified claims has consequences. Remember the Steele dossier, with its wild allegations of blackmail and urinating prostitutes? It's now pretty much entirely discredited due to unreliable sources, and the very real, very clear connection between Trump and Russia lost credibility with it.
Similarly, the Mueller investigation was also undermined by outlandish claims. Left-leaning grifters like Louise Mensch and the Krassenstein brothers made predictions of imminent arrests and treason charges. When the Mueller Report was finally released, it stated that, while there wasn't enough evidence to say Trump definitively colluded with Russia, there was no evidence to clear him of that charge, and he committed criminal obstruction of justice during the course of the investigation. That should have been a damning conclusion, but after months of wild speculation and overhype, it was labeled a nothing-burger.
So, I'm going to remain skeptical of an old KGB agent's Facebook post about a 38 year plot to recruit Donald Trump as a spy, and instead stick to what is known: Trump has long had business dealings with Russian oligarchs, the Russian government supported him through online propaganda, there were credible accusations of collusion between his campaign and Russia, and he is now promoting a pro-Russia foreign policy. That's significant enough.
And that is not saying, "I can't believe the world is round so Occam's razor it must be flat because that I can understand." That's saying, "I can see the Earth I'd curved, and while some people claim we're actually on the back of giant turtle, Occam's Razor says it's probably just round."
Good job. You've earned your rubles and can clock out now.
LOL, you're literally doing the thing I'm describing. You're making an outlandish claim (that I am a paid Russian agent) that's going to make a real issue (Russian online disinformation campaigns) seem less credible. If your reaction to someone saying, "Trump is clearly in Russia's pocket, but you should be wary of outlandish claims with unverified sources," is, "you must be a Russian propagandist," you need to touch grass.
Probably the KGB had lot of people, because survivorship bias we don't know about the great majority of them
I mean, I'm sure the KGB was interested in influencing prominent Americans, and it's very likely they were using Russian businessmen (and mobsters) to influence Trump. The CIA plays similar games with foreign business leaders. But do I believe that KGB directly recruited Trump, asked him to be their spy, gave him a codename, and kept him on as a sleeper agent through the fall of the Soviet Union? No, it's going to take more than one guy's Facebook post to make me believe that. It's very possible there is some truth in what he's saying, but I would take it with several grains of salt.
The Russians also pay some people to influence opinions. It's hard to even know if the above "skeptical" comment is genuine.
Yeah, I don't think it's some long-running scheme to get Trump into power or whatever. More that he happened to be the right idiot on the payroll when the shit hit the fan.
Trump's ties to Russia have been known forever. The FBI has been trying to pin him for his ties to Russian crime organizations for decades, with all the "gifts" of yachts and planes that they've given him and all the real estate that they own in Trump Towers and the like.
I think he just happened to be there when all the greed and flaws in our system finally broke under the weight of actual schemes to foster extremism in the population for various reasons and the short-sightedness of corporate interests looking to wring the country dry.
Yeah, I think that's about it. I think Russia has been encouraging oligarchs and mobsters to make contact with prominent Americans they thought they could influence, and a lot of those connections went nowhere. When Trump started winning the primary, Putin probably realized he could use him, so he had some oligarchs cut a deal. But this KGB agent's Facebook post about making direct contact with Trump, recruiting him as a spy, and giving him a codename, as well as his claim that he may be assassinated for sharing this? It seems like it's either some sort of disinformation campaign or just some old man embellishing a story for attention.
With most things like this, I truly, honestly think the man is just too dumb to carry out what he's accused of. Now, stupidity is absolutely not an excuse to get you out of the dumb shit you've done (in fact, it now seems to be a prerequisite for his position along with being incredibly wealthy and comically old), but I don't think he's behind a lot of these elaborate plans he's accused of.
I think at the end of the day, he's just a very old, very rich, incredibly gullible and dumb man who is very easily controlled by those around him.
He's not the one behind the elaborate plans. That's Putin.
I followed r/ the_donald when it first started. It was a joke, and rightfully so. It was fun. However, when anyone tried to call it out as the joke it was, they'd be banned within seconds. Any time of day. Those aren't volunteer moderators.
I assume similar schemes were happening on Facebook and other social media. Honestly it was a master class in modern propaganda. I expected more research papers covering it by now.
They picked the horse. The horse didn't pick them.
You'll notice they love to fall back on this "just a joke" thing. It's a theme. Like when you've ironically used the word "rizz" enough that it's no longer ironic. That's what they're going for.
Was it Eric that said Russia pays for everything?
E: It was, someone else provided the quote