this post was submitted on 13 Jan 2025
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The voters voted in Trump again so maybe there’s something there.
I mean, yeah, sure. There's a lot of fucking scumbag MAGA people. There's also a lot of people who pay almost no attention to politics at all and have a lot of problems.
Quick! In one sentence, summarize Kamala's campaign pitch. If you did it without mentioning Trump or Biden, I'm impressed, good job, I'm pretty interested in what you came up with. Now, do Trump. Probably something stupid like "you'll be winning so much" or whatever, right? If you knew nothing at all about politics, which one sounds better? For someone who isn't paying attention, maybe distrusts all politicians equally (for better or worse), probably Trump's. Of course, he's going to be fucking catastrophic for anyone who isn't a billionaire, but I'm just talking campaign pitches. The point is that the democrats need to take this opportunity to get their shit together and start working on a better pitch than "not Trump".
We are not going back -> progressiv politics for the challenges of the future
Her pitch was pretty clear and she gave concrete policies all the time this was just a narrative pushed by MAGA
Her pitch was “more drilling” and “more war” and “no changes to healthcare”.
No, I know she gave concrete policies, I watched the debate. What I mean is that
The policies weren't much to write home about
I'm asking about the elevator pitch. Give me the campaign message in one sentence.
Continuing the good things Biden had done (chips act, student debt cancellation, etc), while protecting reproductive rights, at least pretending to treat minorities like humans, while being the only rational option that had a chance.
My life has gotten markedly worse since biden and so has that of all my coworkers. More of the same “nothing will fundamentally change” Biden except as a first black Indian woman president!!! is simply not appealing and it has nothing to do with identity politics. This economy is destroying the working class. My entire department coworkers voted for trump, almost all of them for the first time. It’s vermont. They’re pro women, pro lgbtq, don’t care about race. But Biden’s economic policies did not help them at all. All of the twice obama thrice trump voters? Same fucking thing. But that doesn’t fit the neat little identity politics narrative conveniently invented to keep people from talking about class issues and gaining class consciousness. You see, the working class greatly surpasses the ruling class in size and we’re heavily armed. Don’t want the working class getting any ideas so best to invent or manipulate identity issues to keep it divided.
If only you’d talk to people instead of parroting liberal MSM talking points that remind me of bush claiming Islamic terrorism was because they hate us! And not you know, the product of decades of US intervention in the Middle East especially the support of Israel’s bullshit.
But objectively Bidens policies were better for them. This is the problem with voting on feels and not data. Unless they voted for Trump to burn the system down in hopes that’d improve things, they voted for their situations to worsen. As well as the situation of those vulnerable groups they ‘care’ about.
Okay, great! Now, here's where I point out the problems. Keep in mind that I am not happy that Trump won, what I want is for the democrats to take their well-earned lessons from their fuck up and not fuck up again, instead of staying in denial of any responsibility and trundling into the midterms convinced that they did everything perfect in '24.
I still don't get why they had to die on the hill of defending a guy who was no longer seeking re-election when they had a perfect opportunity to put distance between them. It should have been the obvious thing to do when the Trump campaign was also trying to make sure that voters associated Kamala with Biden.
I mean, pretend you didn't pay attention to politics. What's a better one sentence pitch? What you said, or "you're going to win a lot, you'll be tired of winning"?
P.S. Following up on student loans: It's also frustrating that instead of trying to make a meaningful change to at least start addressing the system that creates the student debt problem, the big fix they offered was a band-aid of debt forgiveness (for some people). That's not meaningful change, it's a band-aid.
It seems whenever someone pointed out that the the economy wasn’t better for the average person, people weren't told to shut up or accused of being MAGA. But told that 'the economy' doesn't measure cost of living for normal people. It's the stock market. Regardless of that it was better by most measures comparing the rebound against other countries. Disinformation was just more effective and reality did not matter.
https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/image_454.png
If one can side just fabricate a southern invasion, or convince people inflation is high when it isn't. It doesnt really matter what the other side does.
If you didn't pay attention to politics you should've been able to take one look at Trumps actions around Jan6 and vote against it, no listing to the media required. It was transparent AF. Recordings of him trying to coerce more votes out of states, and all the nonsense that came afterwards, etc. But unfortunately fear is too effective, and the Dems are much worse at it. Too busy nitpicking a lame campaign and sowing doubt rather than the pure denial and unity the people want.
Like I asked elsewhere, if the lesson is blame the voters, then what's the plan? Cross our arms and scoff incredulously when we lose again next time?
Accelerate until enough pain gives enough people a reality check. Go all in on the antivax propaganda next time and reduce their numbers.
Bingo.
The last few elections have really highlighted how uneducated and easily manipulated the American public is. And as far as I can tell, disinformation is going to be our future. The average American just isn't interested in responsibly informing themselves. And because of that we'll never have the Congress we need to reign in the forces pushing that disinformation (not that you can ever really stop it now that Pandora's Box is open). So the future goes to whatever party can fabricate the most extreme blatant lies to scare people into voting for them.
The future is not looking bright.
And the dems had 4 years to throw trump in jail but that’s “too political”
They’re useless so why vote for them?
To shift the Overton window left.
That would mean shifting the democratic party left. They're the ones pulling that end of the window right.
Wonder how many rights we'll lose and how fucked up our economy will be by the time we get the felon rapist out of office, assuming we can get him and his party out of office after they attempt to make good on their promise to "reorganize" our government after inciting an insurrection to topple it. But at least maybe Democrats will "learn their lesson" by then.
Lol. That's literally how Republicans win. They cornered the market on it. They developed fear-based politics into an art form. THEY'RE EATING OUR PETS. INVADING IMMIGRANT CARAVANS. THEY'RE STEALING YOUR JOBS AND RAPING YOUR CHILDREN. BIDEN IS TOO OLD (totally ignore that our guy is equally old).
If anything, Democrats need to learn how to lie and scare people into voting for them more effectively, because clearly that's what nets American votes.
I mean I guess if I cosplayed a moron I'd go with the winning comment. If I remain in the shoes of someone with a normal number of brain cells, then I'd rather hear about accomplishments and policy.
Okay, so if the lesson is blame the voters, then what's the plan? Scoff in disbelief and say "God, I can't believe you guys are still this stupid" when the Democrats lose again in 26 or 28?
I can’t believe the blue magas are this stupid. It’s like they want to lose. Idiots.
But Biden is SOOOOOOOOOO old. Like 3 whole years older than the ancient rapist we just elected.
I mean, we know Democrats are a WAY better option for the average American, but can you imagine someone 3 WHOLE years older than the felon we elected being president? Totally unacceptable.
She tried to buy voters and it failed because noone trusts democrats to follow through on promises without them being backhanded or benefiting a group of people that aren't involved.
Said literally days after Democrats banned medical debt from showing up on credit reports.
I'm referring to her policy proposals of giving money away for various reasons.
You're getting downvoted, but Kamala simply ran a better campaign than Trump. She was all about hope and inclusion, which is undeniably a better message than "hate this person I'm telling you to hate". She decimated him in the debate, going over policy while he talked about immigrants eating pets and having concepts of plans.
She ran a better campaign. In a very short period of time.
She lost because
There's a lot of hate in America.
Americans are easily misinformed and manipulated by disinformation. The average American is too goddamn lazy and stupid to lookup data and make responsible decisions based off that data.
Winning the vote is the only metric that actually counts for how good a campagna is.
That’s what I get stuck on every time. Yeah, the democrats are useless and need to make big changes. They carry a lot of blame. But it’s not just people being fed up with their useless asses. The voters turned out in big numbers to vote FOR Trump. We expected the results to take a long time and be contentious again, but the morning after Election Day his victory was already clear.
It’s just… sad? Discouraging?
Extremely discouraging. I'm still incredulous that he got re-elected, and moreso that the democrats managed to fuck it up bad enough to lose to that fucking guy again
I'll be honest, I can't even really be mad at them. I can't think of anything they should have done differently.
I don't know what you do when your economic plan is countered by "mine is better, I'll give you details later", and "immigrants will eat your pets".
How about not trying to pretend that Biden was fine all through the primary right up until he went up on the debate stage and blew his legs off on national TV? I think that probably would have been a great start.
You're kidding, right?
Thing #1, in giant flashing marquee letters, would've been "pick an AG who would've actually gone after the traitorous coup leader instead of sitting on his ass for two years." Remember, Merrick Garland's original qualification for his SCOTUS nomination was being so conservative that even Mitch McConnell had no excuse to reject him. It should've been blatantly obvious to everyone that that made him the absolute wrong choice for AG.
Things #2 - infinity can basically be summarized as "all the stuff that would actually help the working class, which the Democrats' major corporate donors would never actually allow them to do."
Thing 3: demand biden be a one term president and hold a legitimate primary instead of coronating Kamala who would of never won in a competitive primary that didn’t have the DNC ratfucking it.
Yup. If reality is subjective you can't really win an election without cornering the market on fear, which is the one thing Republicans are good at.
Can't fix dumbass Americans, no matter how good your campaign is.
Okay, but where do you go with that? What do you do with that? There's nothing you can do with "the voters are wrong" except to assure yourself that you're right as you keep getting your ass kicked by sociopaths, idiots, and clowns every election. It's loser talk.
The voters aren't wrong, the democrats need to get up off their ass, stop relying on not being the other guy, and actually give the no-voters a reason to show up to the polls.
I’m of the belief they fucked up on purpose. It’s fraud (not the election, their behavior) so they can fundraise off it.
It's pathetic is what it is.
America gleefully RE-ELECTED an anti-democratic felon rapist who removed women's rights, incited an insurrection, illegally attempted to overturn an election, stole and refused to return classified documents, and fumbled the response to the greatest American crisis since WW2.
We're squarely in the "trash society" category now. The only thing we're the greatest at is having a lot of firepower.