Today I Learned
What did you learn today? Share it with us!
We learn something new every day. This is a community dedicated to informing each other and helping to spread knowledge.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
Rules (interactive)
Rule 1- All posts must begin with TIL. Linking to a source of info is optional, but highly recommended as it helps to spark discussion.
** Posts must be about an actual fact that you have learned, but it doesn't matter if you learned it today. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.**
Rule 2- Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.
Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.
That's it.
Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.
Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Rule 6- Regarding non-TIL posts.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-TIL posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
Rule 7- You can't harass or disturb other members.
If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
For further explanation, clarification and feedback about this rule, you may follow this link.
Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.
Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.
Let everyone have their own content.
Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.
Unless included in our Whitelist for Bots, your bot will not be allowed to participate in this community. To have your bot whitelisted, please contact the moderators for a short review.
Partnered Communities
You can view our partnered communities list by following this link. To partner with our community and be included, you are free to message the moderators or comment on a pinned post.
Community Moderation
For inquiry on becoming a moderator of this community, you may comment on the pinned post of the time, or simply shoot a message to the current moderators.
view the rest of the comments
Til Biden didn’t do anything to reunite the families and in fact continued separating families: https://immigrantjustice.org/staff/blog/biden-administration-routinely-separates-immigrant-families
This is not the same thing at all. Trump instituted a zero tolerance policy, separating any family caught crossing illegally with the stated intent to dissuade families from making the trip.
Normally (including under Biden) the government separates children from suspected human traffickers or members of gangs that engage in trafficking. This is not to deter families. It's to protect children - sending a child back to Mexico with a human trafficker is an abhorrent thing to do.
Stop carrying water for Trump.
Standard Democrat fare - they'll perpetuate the worst of the GOP nonsense, fix some of it, and generally be less terrible. Also see: Gitmo.
...but as long as the alternative is the GOP, who will make everything far worse far faster (to the point that they're likely to end the moribund US democracy next term), you need to get out and vote for them up and down the ballot.
The democrats are following the law set up by the republicans underneath gwb.
Unless you want biden to act like a dictator, there isnt much he can do considering the state of the senate/house.
Yes - the Republicans instituted the bad thing, the Democrats perpetuated it. Obama had the White House , House , and Senate and didn't close Gitmo as promised.
I'm in favour of Biden acting like a dictator if it's to do things like restore the rule of law, stop torture, and right wrongs like separating kids from their families for their entire childhood. The kinds of consequences that make dictatorships bad. What's the value of proceduralism if it not just fails to correct, but actively delivers those outcomes?
Neither party has made any effort to eliminate the unconstitutional Patriot Act either, instead, actually ramping it up.
Yep - there's no shortage of examples - this is why I point to it as the unfortunate norm.
Did you follow the situation? Gitmo wasn't closed because there was nowhere to transfer the prisoners. It was attempted, numerous times. There were legal battles over this.
The irony.
Would you mind giving a quick explanation of your understanding the rule of law and its relevance to the constitution and US legal system?
Bonus points for extending this explanation to the 5th-8th amendment (particularly 6 and 8).
Based on the downvotes, it seems we're indifferent about the principles underpinning the constitution and the entire legal system, the right to a speedy trial and freedom from cruel and unusual punishment.
Most of this wasn't tested in those legal cases - to my knowledge, they didn't even meaningfully challenge the fact that these detainees were being held by the US on foreign soil to transparently and dishonestly skirt those protections.
Not to defend them too much and I have to admit that I don't know much about the details which bills were priorities during the 4 months that Obama has house, senate and Presidency.
What I did read a while back was that Obama didn't know how long his supermajority would last and some of the things he wanted he wanted done but couldn't once he lost the house.
I'd say the shining city on the hill should have made restoring the rule of law a higher priority, but that's just my opinion.
It seems the GOP can make things plenty worse in a hell of a hurry, but when it comes to righting the wrongs, it's all too hard. The Democrat inclination toward civility politics and the status quo over basics like protecting the rule of law and the democracy will be the death of us.
Funny thing that. It's almost like being destructive is a lot easier than being constructive.
That's weird because it's certainly a lot easier and quicker to build an entire city than it is to raze one....oh wait, no, the opposite of what I just said there is obviously true.
You mean like destroying the GOP's atrocious policies, right? No? Then you might need to explain yourself, friend.
Yeah, that's it. Improvement is really just destroying destruction!
Wow, you really got me there. 😆
After the village has been burnt down, it's easy to fix because you just burn the ruins!
You're using the vaguest possible language and imagining you're profound, then dismissing the example I gave because it disagrees with your narrative by point to burning villages as though that means anything?
I gave the more specific example of destroying Republican legislation, and either you're too dishonest to acknowledge that, or too stupid to understand. Why be like this?
I'll be more specific and point to 4 executive orders from Trump that Biden destroyed, and ask you to explain precisely what the fuck you think you're talking about?
Preventing Online Censorship
Protecting American Monuments, Memorials, and Statues and Combating Recent Criminal Violence
Building and Rebuilding Monuments to American Heroes
Rebranding United States Foreign Assistance to Advance American Influence'
Try to refrain from smugly gesturing at vagueries - you look silly enough as is.
Yes I'm too stupid. "Why be like this?" indeed.
How about instead of a weirdo list of things you've randomly assembled, we take the actual subject of this original post into consideration?
The reason they haven't re-united the families is largely that there were no records and/or shitty records kept about who was separated from whom, so they don't know who the children's parents are.
Yet another example of how it's easier to make a situation worse than it is to improve it. It's much easier to separate families and bus the people in them around the country, and it's harder to figure out whose 4-year-old some kid is.
A list of Trump's executive orders that Biden rolled back is a weirdo list of random things?
That seems like a transparently stupid thing to say - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, stand back and let you explain that one.
It can't be that you think that because some things are easy to undo, all things are, and that because my examples don't fit that narrative, you dismiss them in a fog of cognitive dissonance.
You came up with some stupid list of bull crap and want to discuss that instead of the actual topic because you've lost the argument.
You lost the argument in the general case: it is generally far easier to make something worse than improve upon it.
And you lost the argument in the specific case: it is more difficult to reunite children with their parents than separate families, and it is extremely more difficult to do so when you don't know who to reunite them with.
Yes - it's harder to reunite kids with their parents than it is to separate them - I'm not arguing that - I'm saying that not every bad thing the GOP does is an act of destruction - like the creation of the executive orders Biden destroyed, like the creation of the policies that led to the separation of those children from their parents. Destroying bad policy or bad EOs isn't inherently harder than creating them - repairing the damage they do is the hard part, but you don't get to do that until you fix the bad policy/EO. This is the part where the Democrats have made some progress, are world better than the GOP, but remain a disappointment.
You're boiling down everything that the GOP does to destruction, and that simply isn't the case as I've already demonstrated. As long as you insist on ramming those square pegs into such an over-simplistic round hole view of the world, discarding any clear, but inconvenient fact, you'll fail to understand the world, and any conclusions you draw will continue to be utterly worthless.
Now I'll stand aside and make room for you to stupidly/dishonestly pretend that destroying bad EOs (which is exactly as easy as creating them) is "bull crap", and that I've said the GOP creating bad things is somehow good because you imagine creating things is inherently good, and only something the Democrats do.
Fuck me - I'm honestly ashamed to share a political tent with such a moron, but better you than the Nazis, I suppose.
The simple act of "creating an executive order" isn't an act of creation / improvement in any sense except for perhaps the most literal and pedantic sense.
Of course it's as possible to repeal executive orders as it was to issue them in the first place, the point is that much of the damage was already done and some of it is permanent.
Like we share tents...you're probably one of the "Genocide Joe" morons.
Yeah - OK, you're operating under your own definition of creation that happens to align with whatever is convenient for your narrative. I'll stick with the dictionary, thanks.
From the outset, my primary concern has been the legislation and EOs that do the damage - our "representatives" enact them, and they do the damage. You need to start with the rollbacks of the things doing the damage before you fix the damage. This isn't complex.
I'm opposed to genocide - I sure as hell hope you agree with that - I'm also vote blue no matter who as long as the alternative is spewing openly Nazi rhetoric like a unified Reich and immigrants polluting the blood of the nation.
I'm sure Biden kept some of Trump's policies in place, but he didn't keep in place "take all the kids, break up every family" and then send out his henchmen to go on TV and say "whomp, whomp" when questioned about it.
There are actual situations happening pertaining to immigration that the administration has to handle.
Despite the right-wing bullshit, "the Biden-Harris administration" 🙄 is definitely not an "open borders" administration. I would argue that "open borders" policies are not particularly tenable in the first place.
Keeping in place some policies Trump laid out some of the time does not prevent an administration from having a better stance overall on immigration, nor does it prevent them from at least trying to clean up some of the damage.
In other words, no, you don't have to repeal every single Trump policy in a public EO signing ceremony as a first order of business in order to fix anything.
I'm glad you seem to agree with what I've been saying from the outset, but have been too caught up in linguistic revisionism to notice - scroll up.
Reminder of when and why I "entered the chat":
The point -- that you've largely conceded above but had to do some kind of interpretive dance first -- is that "righting the wrongs" is often harder than making things worse is in a great many circumstances and that's why they're able to do it so quickly.
It's not "all too hard" sarcastically like you seemed to be implying. It's "all too hard" sincerely and in reality.
Righting the policy wrongs is the first step, the easier step and the one they're faltering on - you can't begin to fix the damage the bad policies have done if you don't deal with the bad policies doing the damage first.
If you think they're done kind of complex dance, I'm comfortable saying that's a you issue, my dude.
Again not every policy has to be reversed in order to start fixing the damage, and not every policy needs to be reversed in general.
This discussion was a fruitless flat circle that nobody else will read anyway. Have a good one.
It's a standard good cop, bad cop routine. They're playing off each other to keep the people perpetually in conflict, and scared. Both sides are convinced that every election means the end of democracy if they lose, and neither side is in a position to demand change, instead desperately trying to cling to the remnants of their former liberties.
I agree with the sentiment in the sense that they have shared class interests, but the GOP wants, and will institute massive, sweeping change for the worse as the Dems deliver a mixed bag in broad defence of the status quo that benefits them.
When was the last time that the Dems undid something that the GOP did? They throw their hands in the air and go "it sucks that the GOP did that! Oh well!". As far as actually enacting policies, there are few, and they're far in-between, but they're considerably better than what the GOP does. The Affordable Care Act comes to mind as a piece of positive legislation, but that was over a decade ago now.
He rolled back changes to the endangered species protections earlier this year for one.
You're also neglecting to mention that they're FAR less prone than the GOP to implement horrific, anti-democratic, regressive, fascistic policies than the GOP. While the Democrats are bad, the GOP is horrific - and when there's only 2 available options and this much of a spread between them, you need to vote to slow the decline.
To be able to make change: Who controls the house AND the senate?
Vote blue no matter who! Even when they're basically holding your queer loved ones hostage.
When the alternative is having those loved ones denied medical care, locked up, or shuffled off to the camps, yes.
You don't have to be happy about it, but you do have to keep the unabashed fascists out of power. There's 1,458 other days in the election cycle to convince, cajole and bully the Democrats into being less bad.