this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2024
1144 points (97.9% liked)
Technology
60084 readers
2657 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
As far as Linux distros are concerned, really, any distro is just a package manager with repos and a set of default utilities. Essentially, a distro is an opinion on how you should use your system, not a law. Now prepare for my ADHD-fuelled stream of consciousness (which I wrote instead of getting any work done, yay):
Stay away from Arch and Gentoo for your first distro. These are basically meme distros, especially Gentoo. They allow for a lot of flexibility and building a really minimal install, but come with install-time complexity you really don't need. Try them later on if you're interested. Stay away from nixOS for now too, although it's also awesome.
Package managers
Essentially, you have two main packaging types: RPM (used by Fedora/RedHat's dnf, previously yum and (Open)SuSE's zypper) and deb (used by apt mostly, dunno if others).
Either one is fine, but I think you'll probably find more software available as debs. But the difference barely exists and with GUI apps you can usually install a flatpak anyway (more on this later).
Deb
Everything deb/apt comes from the Debian lineage.
You have Debian, the granddaddy of stability, releases come every few years and are tested thoroughly. After package freeze, only bugfixes and security updates usually get added. Then you have Ubuntu, a fork of Debian with more frequent releases as well as Long-Term Support releases every 2 years. Ubuntu used to be the most recommended beginner distro, but it's no longer the case - not just because it has ads in it, but also because it pushes Snaps over Flatpaks AND occasionally tries to force Snaps over regular packages (again, more on this later).
Then, much like Ubuntu has forked Debian, others have forked Ubuntu. There's Linux Mint - used to have the same release cadence as Ubuntu, but now they only base their releases off Ubuntu LTS versions. Really, it's Ubuntu without all the commercial stuff Ubuntu's been pushing. And they maintain their own desktop environment(s), but you can get those elsewhere too. There's also Pop!_OS which is developed by System76, a laptop manufacturer. It used to come with its' own customizations on top of Gnome, but now they're creating their own desktop environment altogether, which is currently in Alpha 2. And then there's KDE Neon, which is also based on Ubuntu LTS, but it ships the latest version of KDE Plasma desktop environment, rather than whatever version is in the latest Ubuntu LTS.
Rpm
On the rpm side, you mostly have two families for non-enterprise users: Fedora, which has a similar release cadence to Ubuntu, but apparently keeps packages more up to date between releases and OpenSuSE, which has Leap (new versions every year, with critical bugfixes and security updates in the meantime) and Tumbleweed, which is rolling release, so you just get the latest version of every package that has been tested, rather than having to wait for a new release. Tumbleweed gets updated just about every day. There's also Slowroll, which gets big updates monthly, but can still get bugfixes between those.
Desktop Environments
For just about any distro, you can get just about any desktop environment. Ubuntu and Fedora default to Gnome. KDE Neon is pretty much just meant to be used with KDE Plasma. Pop!_OS defaults to customized Gnome unless you get the alpha version of the new COSMIC desktop. OpenSUSE defaults to KDE Plasma.
For Ubuntu you get variants like Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, etc, for whatever desktop you want, or you can switch alter (
apt install kubuntu-desktopfor an example). For Fedora, you can get a Fedora Spin, like Fedora KDE Spin for an example. Or you can similarly switch:dnf install @kde-desktop-environment. Same goes for all of them, really.Desktop environments: The two big ones are KDE Plasma (close to Windows in default appearance, but a lot more customizable, and more functional straight out of the box) and Gnome, which as of Gnome 3 is just... unique, I guess. It's different. Then on the "Help I'm running this on a computer from 2004" side you have things like XFCE and LXQT. (Xubuntu, Lubuntu get their names from these). Those work just fine too, just a bit less eye candy. There are a lot more of less mainstream ones like Budgie or Enlightenment, but you can worry about those later.
Sandboxed applications - Flatpak, Snap
Now, why did I mention Flatpaks and Snaps earlier? Those are sandboxed package managers. A package comes with a sandbox of its' own, and Flatpak or Snap keeps a copy of all the libraries it depends on, instead of using system libraries. This means that 1) There's never a version conflict between what's installed on your system and what the application uses and 2) You have multiple copies of some libraries (Flatpak and Snap both I think do try to deduplicate though so if two applications use the same version of a dependency, it keeps one copy stored). 3) You can install applications your distro doesn't even have a package for.
Both also keep system resources out of reach of the applications, so they're more secure to some degree if you don't trust an application. This comes with limitations, too - sometimes you NEED your application to have access to something that's limited in Flatpak or Snap. You can sorta fix this with flatseal for Flatpak, but it's not perfect.
The real problem with Snap, besides having a proprietary backend vs Flatpak where you can use either Flathub or another application store with it, is that Ubuntu is starting to force it upon you - including for applications you may not want to run in a sandbox at all. You'll run
apt install firefoxand it'll play a trick on you and install the Snap instead of the deb. You lose some control over your system and how you use it. You can override this, but it's possibly more work than you'd want to take on as a brand new Linux user.At the end of the day, I recommend using either OpenSuSE Tumbleweed (if you want latest and greatest always), Fedora, Linux Mint, or Pop!_OS. If you really want the latest and greatest KDE Plasma and don't want Tumbleweed, then KDE Neon might make sense for you.
A distro is way more than just package managers, it's also the level of testing before deployment, and a shitload of configuration and design decisions.
That said, everything from one distro can generally be configured to work like it does in another distro, but it's not always easy.
If you want to try Linux, jump right into it, if there's something you don't like, maybe another Distro or DE has fixed that exact thing, and it's easy to swap.
Ya, also you can just check them out on a "live" thumbdrive, say put Linux mint or whatever distro on a thumbdrive, boot from it and see if you like it. If you don't, just remove the thumbdrive and reboot, no harm done.
Calling Arch a meme distro is unnecessarily insulting. I imagine the same applies to Gentoo, but I haven't used it myself. It's an enthusiast distro, for people who want to have control over how their system is set up while accepting the responsibility of having to set everything up.
I absolutely agree with recommending against it for somebody's first experience - but if you're willing to read through the guides and troubleshoot issues, you can learn a lot about how things work on Linux. It's the kind of distro where you will have issues, and they will usually be due to your own mistakes.
I categorized them as meme distros because you're going to spend more time getting things just right than actually using your computer, at least for a while. In fact you could say my favourite games to play on Gentoo were the Portage package manager and nano. Yes, I used it on my gaming PC.
For a while, maybe... But the two distinctions I'd want to make is that, one, that's also mostly the time you'll spend learning what you need to set up as part of your system, and two, things that might be out of your control on many distros. I'd also say that by calling it a "meme distro" you're lumping it together with Hannah Montana Linux and similar.
I will certainly say, however, that I'm rather annoyed by all the people saying "Bro you can set up arch in a few minutes just run archinstal it's easy"... Not only do I not believe it's that easy when you don't know what you're doing and need to actually use the system, but that also seems to run counter to the point of arch. I think there's at least two popular arch derivatives meant to remove the enthusiast aspect and provide a streamlined experience, so why recommend arch to new people if not as a learning experience?
The only thing that makes Arch harder to install than Debian is that you have to type "arch install" and hit enter instead of clicking on "install" using a mouse cursor.
It ain't 2012 anymore.
As an openSUSE user, I want to also point out that you can upgrade from Leap -> Tumbleweed really easily, so I highly recommend starting with Leap and upgrading to Tumbleweed later once you get a feel for the system and want something a little more exciting and up-to-date.
That said, I don't recommend openSUSE for a new user unless you're in Europe, because there just isn't a huge userbase or single community I can point at. Support is high quality, when you can find it, but quite a bit less plentiful vs Fedora. That said, SUSE is huge in Europe, so you could probably find a lot more non-English language support.
So if you're sold on an RPM distro, I recommend Fedora, not because openSUSE is bad, but purely based on community support. That said, my primary recommendation is Linux Mint due to community size and proximity to Debian (which also has a huge community).
That's not really true, it asks you in the installer which one you want. However, most openSUSE users seem to recommend KDE, so you'll probably get the best help with that desktop (and it's what I use, now that Wayland support is pretty good).
I differ a bit. Here's what I recommend:
I use openSUSE, but put it lower due to limited community support. It's the perfect distro for me, and I love the different spins it has. I currently use Leap for servers and Tumbleweed for desktop/laptop, and I plan to transition to microOS for servers.
I don't see Arch as a meme, I think it's a fine distro and I used it for several years. However, I don't think it should be anyone's first distro, or even second, not because it's hard or complicated (it's remarkably simple), but because it doesn't really have any guardrails, so whether you have a good or bad experience with it depends more on you than the distro itself.
That said, don't use Manjaro, it's not "easier Arch" or "safer Arch," in fact I think it has way more problems than Arch does. If you want an easy install option, I recommend using something else first. If you are familiar with Arch, then use something like EndeavorOS so you don't need to do all the setup, but as a first time user, I recommend using Arch's official install process instead.
Don't tell people to stay away from Arch. It is not a god damned meme OS, hell even the Steam Deck production OS is built on Arch.
It's installer is as easy to use as the other shit you recommended if you can fucking read and follow directions, but skips the unnecessary installer UIs that hand-hold (which requires just as much reading and direction following, difference is the others have a toddler-appealing colorful UI).
If old MAGA Boomers can handle text terminal DOS installs with floppy disks, a contepmorary dumbfuck Windows user will be fine too.
You make a compelling argument why not to use arch in calling windows users dumbfucks and swearing every 3 words in your reply lol
What's wrong with swearing?
And full disclosure, I'm a member of the dumbfuck Windows user group to play my PC games in Steam.
Nothing wrong with swearing in general, but you're using it in a needlessly hostile way
My point is that the arch community in general is very hostile to new and non technical users, I don't think many would disagree
Also, why still use a windows PC? Unless you play valorant, Fortnite etc proton is 99% there imo, haven't had a windows machine in a year or so and I very rarely have any issues
Emphasis mine
Profanity is meant for very strong negative emotion. Using it casually robs it of most of its value.
Lies.
No it's exclusively not; this has to be one of the dumbest takes I've read here.
And you have no authority to tell other people how to think or speak. Go away. Fuck off to your own echo chamber where reading a specific word doesn't hurt your feelings.
I am correct. This has been the case for millennia. You being stupid and ignorant doesn't make me wrong. Once upon a time saying something like "To Hell with you!" was considered blasphemy and could actually get you killed. Plenty of people have been attacked/killed for using a profanity. https://billygraham.org/answer/what-is-blasphemy-is-it-the-same-thing-as-profanity-i-admit-that-once-in-a-while-i-get-upset-and-use-some-cuss-words-i-probably-shouldnt-but-i-dont-really-mean-anything-by-it/
https://noodls.com/language-and-grammar/surprising-truth-is-hell-considered-a-swear-word/
"others may lose their potency through overuse"
"the usage of "hell" in contexts that trivialize or mock its religious implications may be deemed offensive or sacrilegious by devout individuals. "
"Phrases such as "What the hell," "Like hell," and "Hell no" are frequently utilized to underscore strong emotions..."
Proving my point
"its casual usage in everyday speech reflects the evolving landscape of profanity and societal attitudes towards language."
Not as strong now since it has been used so much
I'm not telling anyone how to think or feel. That's a dumbass thing for you to say. I'm explaining, not dictating. Just because your ego is extremely fragile and your mind is obviously incapable of understanding explanations by others doesn't make you right. So to Hell with you, damn asshole.
That's a lot of words for saying "no u".
I used Gentoo for gaming for 2 straight years. I'm not a complete newbie. I'm still not going to recommend Arch or Gentoo for anyone's first distro.
There's a reason most distros come with a set of reasonable defaults. It's so that you're not left wondering "how the fuck do I get wifi working from the command line?" before you're ready to tackle this issue.
Most people also want their computers to just work. They don't want to fiddle around with it to get it just right.
The problem with Arch is that it's too minimal for someone who comes with an expectation that everything "just works".
Most people who use computers today started using GUI software as their first contact with computer tech in general. Hand-holding is customer service, some people need to be guided through the process, and having something that looks like it should work even if you don't know what you're doing helps.
On the one hand, take 10 randos who have never seen anything but Windows, and give half an Arch installer, the other half eg. Fedora. Take a guess which half will fare better.
On the other hand, Linux and OSS in general is about choice. Not just your choice, but the choice of "dumbfuck Windows users" as well. If you like Arch, go for it, but most people find it hard to cope with after coming over from commercial interfaces. You do Arch, they do Linux Mint if they feel like it.
That's great, I agree with everything you said.
My problem is with the dude earlier telling people to arbitrarily stay away from specific OSes for no valid reason and state it as an absolute authority of fact.