this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2024
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People need to chill the fuck out. We all know what we are getting with either candidate. This isnt the fuckin game of thrones where some forgotten character hidding in the old woods is guna wheel out and save the fucking day. If Biden loses to Trump the only people to blame are the ones who didn't go out to vote. If Trump loses to Biden the only people to blame are the ones who didn't go out and vote.
I don't give a fuck what the crackpots are guna say after the loss. There will prolly be protests, riots, panick but this will be the fucking end of the road the the shit show.
No large mass is storming the capital again. No large protests will errupt into riots. The SCOTUS is set for the foreseeable future. Noone has the fuckiny overhead to cause a ruckus muchless miss work anymore. People are too fucking exausted paying out the dickhole just to afford the 300% pandemic price increases that are here to stay.
Our parents left us for the summer with the grandparents and yeah maybe it was our first time seeing 70's porn bush and stash, smoking a backwoods, and sipping on some moonshine that mightve just been kerosene, those of us who survived will guaranteed never be the same but we still grew older, wiser and hopefully developed a sense of fuckin regret for everything that brought us to this point. It's a huge country with huge flaws but it doesn't mean we can't still be friendly neighbors who wave to each other 6 times a year.
Well the mushrooms are kicking in so ima go and try to tell which fireflies are real and which ones are just reflecting off the pond water. No idea where I was going with this.
That was a trip. I'll up vote you for the effort and the rollercoaster ride.
Wat.
One of the last remaining, not totally burned out hippies just told us to calm down, then yelled a bunch of boomer nonsense platitudes and gripes before admitting they'd taken mushrooms and were just screaming into the void.
I respect it. Maybe we all need to take more psychedelics and scream nonsense into the void.
Hahahaha I'm 36 and can't stand jam bands lol
Edit: rest is spot on tho🍻
I hope your sunrise was spectacular over the water.
I like how this began to slowly make less and less sense.
It reads a little like AI generated text. Be careful thinking too much about that if you're on shrooms though!
I've never taken shrooms, but I think the right phrase is... Have a good trip!
Maybe he can commune with the machine elves and tell us their wisdom.
I stay away from machines while tripping ever since I lost the tip of my coworkers finger.
I hope you find it.
By that standard, as long as the Republicans push a shitty candidate, voters have no choice but to pick the Democrat. Gotta do better than that if you wanna sway people's actions on election day.
Funny, I would've thought that the people voting for a candidate are the ones responsible for the candidate getting elected.
Hahahah I see what ya did there. I would have lost it last night if I read this while listening to the stars shine.
Alice and Bob. Alice wins. She says that Bob can only blame himself for neglecting his training, but Bob blames Alice and says that if she wouldn't have ran so fast, he could have won.
Who is right and who is wrong?
While it is true that Bob would have won if Alice was slow enough, it doesn't mean that Alice should be carrying any blame here. She wanted to win the race. Bob is the one who did something wrong, because he did not want to lose and still didn't do what he can in order to win.
If candidate A gets elected, his voters don't need to blame themselves for getting him elected. That's what they wanted to do. Or, at least, that's what the realistic option they preferred over the other realistic options.
If he does something they don't like, and it's something that the other candidate wouldn't have done, only then should they blame themselves for getting him into power. And even then - they should balance that against the bad things (in their opinion) candidate B would have done that candidate A wouldn't.
But for the very act of him getting their candidate elected? They should not feel guilty for that. They should feel pride - or at least, as much pride as casting a vote into a ballot can entitle.
The ones who should feel blame are the ones who wanted candidate B elected and did not vote. They could have done something to contribute to the outcome they prefer - they could have voted. By their inaction, they have contributed to a result they did not want.
This analogy has literally nothing to do with anything. What's happening is that Bob is saying that if he loses, it's not because of himself or because of Alice, but rather because of Charlie, who isn't even involved.
Why should they feel guilt or pride? According to your insane "logic," they bear zero responsibility for getting the candidate they voted for elected. The reason a candidate wins, apparently, has nothing whatsoever to do with the number of votes they receive, but rather, it's entirely the people who don't participate in the process who determine the outcome, somehow.
Of course the number of votes matter. Not voting affects the number of votes, because if the non-voter would have vote - the number of votes would be different. The responsibility is shared between all the people who get the right to vote. No one argue that this includes the ones who actually voted - the argument is about whether this includes the non-voters.
Is that a typo? Surely you mean that no one would argue that it doesn't include the ones who actually voted.
Right. Sorry. Was more along the lines of "no one argues with the fact that ...", which pretty much means the same thing as your correction.
The comment I originally responded to said:
So we agree then that that position is ridiculous and that no one should be claiming that.
Not ridiculous - just not sufficiently detailed. The people who didn't vote are only to be blamed if the candidate they'd vote for if they did vote lost. Basically, if Biden (Trump) wins:
The people who voted for Trump (Biden) should not be blamed, because they already did what they could - they voted for Trump (Biden). It's not like they could have voted "harder".
The people who voted for Biden (Trump) should not be blamed either - they got what they wanted, and they were within their civilian right to do so.
The people who did not vote but would have voted for Biden (Trump) should not be blamed because just like the previous group - they got what they wanted. Also, even if they would have voted it wouldn't have changed the outcome. There is an approach that say this should still be condemned because this was still a risk, but I believe one should not be so quick to condemn a bad practice when it succeeds because if you have to do that that means you were unable to find enough cases where the practice failed (and condemn it there) - which should compel you to consider whether this really is a bad practice.
Also - we are talking about blaming Trump's (Biden's) loss on them, but they would have voted for Biden (Trump), which means that by not voting they gave half a vote to Trump (Biden) - so why blame them for not voting?
This leaves us with the people who did not vote but would have voted for Trump (Biden). These people are blamable - they did not get their preferred candidate, and they could have done something to increase the odds that he would have won.
That's complete nonsense. You literally just said, "No one argues with the fact that this includes the ones who actually voted" and here you are arguing with the fact that the people who actually voted for a candidate are included in those responsible for getting a candidate elected. Which is it?
I make a distinction between "responsibility" and "blame":
If the candidate you supported won, you share in the responsibility for it - but not in the blame because from your point of view there is no blame because it's not a bad thing.
That's still nonsense, the point of view doesn't matter. If I rob a gas station then I'm still the person to blame for the gas station being robbed, regardless of whether it was a good thing or not from my point of view. That's simply not what the word means.
That kind of blame is useless when trying to prevent gas station robberies. You need to blame the robbery on something the people who don't want the station to be robbed could have done different, so that they could do it differently next time. Putting the blame on the robber, in this context, won't do any good - the robber know exactly what they could have done to prevent the robbery (which is quite simple - just refrain from doing it) , but they won't do it because they want to rob the store.
Let's pretend, just for a moment, that the point of the public discussion of the elections is to try and affect their results. You conclude the if Trump gets elected, it'll be the fault of the people who voted for Trump. So you go to Trump voters and try to convince them that if Trump gets elected it'd be their fault but they can change that if they act now and refrain from voting.
Say you've managed to convince them that this is the case. Will it affect their behavior? Will they say "I was going to vote for Trump because I want him as president, but now I realize that this would mean it's my fault he gets elected so maybe I shouldn't"?
On the other hand, if you manage to convince a non voter on Biden's side that it'd be their fault if they don't vote and Trump gets elected - that's potentially another vote for Biden, and enough of these can change the outcome.
Again, what you're saying here is fundamentally absurd. If the robber was not to blame, then it would be unjust to punish them. This isn't how words work, or how society works, or how anything works. You're being completely unreasonable.
Your problem is that you're assuming that the robber's actions, or the Trump voter's, is completely immutable and out of your hands, while everyone else's are something you can control. Neither of those are true. You have no more ability to get me to to vote Biden than you do to get a Trump voter to change their vote. As usual, every argument that claims "if you don't vote for Biden you're supporting Trump" rests on the assumption that you're entitled to my vote, which is simply not true.
Disagree. I can't coerce neither of you, of course, and as you said I'm not entitled to anyone's fault, but I'm still allowed to argue on and internet and try to make people see reason. And for that, I have a "leverage" on you that I don't have on a Trump voter - the proposition that you don't want a conservative dystopia.
(Of course, if you do want a conservative dystopia consider my entire argument null and void)
Again, wrong on both counts. I'm already not supporting a conservative dystopia so you don't have that leverage over me. Meanwhile, there are many people who vote Trump don't intend to support a conservative dystopia, so you would have leverage over them.
You are not actively supporting it, but you are not making the minimal effort to oppose it either.
Why are they voting for the candidate who promises a conservative dystopia then?
You're vastly overestimating the level of political literacy of the average American, let alone the average Trump voter.