this post was submitted on 22 May 2024
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Then your choices are reduced to "Allow politicians to know that your 'demands' mean nothing because they have no consequences" or "Let the fascist win".
By the way, really loving the "LOL let's just wing it" attitude towards the potential murder of millions more people. Makes me feel real warm and fuzzy inside to know that the pro-minority attitude of the online left isn't even deep enough to be performative.
Probably as much as it warms my heart that the online centrist attitude is "I guess i'm eating genocide today shrug"
You're eating genocide either way, unless you have a fucking miracle candidate up your sleeve you've been hiding 'til now. The difference is, you've chosen the "All Trump Can Eat" genocide buffet.
We only have to eat genocide if we choose not to send the food back
I can tell what your appetite is by the fact you're not even trying
What was your plan to send the food back and ensure that the genocide buffet wasn't returned in response, again? Was it "We're going to say 'no' very firmly despite 48 of the 100 people at this table eagerly voting for the genocide buffet"?
Frankly i'm hoping the chef cares enough about that possibility that he serves up something different
I really think it's the customers basic obligation to at least say 'whatever the chef recommends BUT ABSOLUTELY NO GENOCIDE'
If you're not at least saying that idk what to tell you, you're probably gonna get genocide
Pretty big hope to lay on a chef who knows that a little genocide is already popular with a significant portion of the 52 other people on the table.
Pretty long odds to make on the lives of millions of people.
We absolutely should say that. But when the chef comes out, and if it's a genocide sandwich, and the only other option if we send it back is that the chef opens up the genocide buffet for the the 48 customers at the table drooling at the prospect...
You have to know when to bite the bullet.
Man, I'm sittin' here saying that Israel is committing one of the greatest crimes of the 21st century. I've called it a genocide, I've said even passive support of it is a stain on America's collective soul, I've advocating for boycotts, removal of ALL aid, just about everything short of a no-fly zone over the AO - and fucking honestly, if the ongoing conflict in Ukraine wasn't a current concern, I'd be advocating for that too.
But when it comes down to it, if my choices are 'less genocide' or 'more genocide', I'm not going to tell anyone voting for 'more genocide' that their choice is OK and I understand and forgive them for sending me and my loved ones to the camps. Like, maybe if it was a question of "It's you and your's, or me and mine", I could understand and forgive that, but it's not. Trump's genocide here and in Ukraine will not alleviate the Palestinian genocide; he will, in fact, intensify it. There's no excuse. And I'm not going to pretend there is.
Can I just say I love your posts and you're saying everything people like me want to but like 3x more clearly
Thank you! Mostly I'm just trying to express my frustration in a way that is coherent and (hopefully) in some way productive.
Well, you're doing an excellent job at it 🫡
and then you're saying "but i'll fucking DEVOUR that genocide if you serve it up to me anyway, and i'll get all my friends to commit to eating it too"
Woops, you've already accepted defeat to genocide there. Even your performative outrage isn't all that strong, if you're eager to move past the choice Biden has to not serve it to you.
Because the alternative is the genocide buffet. Have you already forgotten that?
Cool, instead the backup chef comes out. It's Trump. Genocide buffet, including the sandwich we rejected. So glad that we've made things worse for no gain. Great job, us. Maybe a little circlejerk before we're taken out and executed will lift our spirits.
Then let's fucking storm the kitchen then? idk why you're so eager to dismiss doing literally anything else before being made to eat the genocide. All i'm doing is screaming "I DON'T WANT TO EAT GENOCIDE! LET'S GET HIM TO CHANGE THE MENU A BIT", and you're like 'lol nah man, you're embarrassing yourself, better to just get everyone to calm down and get ready to eat it'
At least i'm fighting it a little, jesus (ha)
Are you actually ready to do that?
Obviously you don't have to answer, but if you are not ready to do that, or you think that it will end in failure, then harm reduction is the only moral choice.
If you're ready to fight and die for a better world, if you think peace has run its course, if you think only political violence can resolve the issue and that the resulting death toll will be less horrific than the currently proposed one, then by all means. But if you are not ready - if you think the polity is not ready, if you think there are other, preferable routes to explore, if you think the death and suffering will be worse than either of the current options - you must sit down and bite the bullet.
I'm not of the opinion that a long and bloody civil war which has a high chance of resulting in one or several fascist states in the former USA arising while our allies themselves struggle with emerging far-right movements inspired by the violence in the USA and the provocation of far-right states in the world is worth me expressing moral disgust with support of a genocidal state at this point in time. The calculus of suffering there is horrendously lopsided, and not in favor of starting a civil war. If it's Biden, complete with support of a genocide, or civil war, I pick Biden as the choice which causes the least human suffering.
Bro, YOU are the Trump supporter here.
"The BIDEN supporter is the TRUMP supporter!"
Yes, picking the one of the two realistic candidates means I actually support the OTHER realistic (but much more vile) candidate. You caught me.
Biden isn't a realistic candidate if he doesn't shift on Palestine.
He's been polling below Trump for over a year. He suffers a 12 point polling error spread.
Biden isn't a viable candidate right now. Its because of his position on Palestine.
How convenient, Biden isn't a realistic candidate if he doesn't shift his position on YOUR issue of choice. Meanwhile, most of the American electorate puts foreign policy near the bottom of their list of concerns.
Oh, and he'll gain 12 points from swapping positions on Palestine?
Like, do you see these threads?
You've catalyzed a huge cohort of people against your position and approach. Do you see how many people are becoming activated and joining the conversation just to strike you down? This is because of your approach to rhetoric. You are actively costing Biden votes, like.. right now.
You can't do this by convincing people to vote for the lessor. If you want the audience to vote for Biden, you have to take a different approach
Oh damn, you've got me, let me check the ratios along these comments
Still waiting for you to tell me how Palestine will win Biden 12 percentage points, in your view.
So if I present to you evidence that voting uncommitted in the primary isn't evidence of intent to withhold their vote in the general, you'll withdraw your position?
Still waiting for you to tell me how he's going to gain 12 percentage points from an issue that is one of the lowest rated on voter's important issues.
Bro 30% of voters in MN, one of the most reliably democratic states in the country held their votes back from Biden because of Palestine.
If Biden doesn't get WI, MN, IL and MN, he's done. 0 chance. He can't get those states right now. The only question is what is it going to take to get him to move policy positions, and what is showing effectiveness in this regard is withholding support.
FYI: I voted uncommitted to send a message to Biden that I care about Gaza and what happens there. I also recognize that the Republicans will jump in with both feet on "burn it to the ground with nuclear fire", so I did what I could to communicate with Biden, and will also be voting for him in the general. I'm one vote, but I know I'm not the only person with that view.
So you have nothing in response except to repeat yourself despite the objections raised. Unsurprising.
I see you out here laying down this logic, and I'm trying to do the same. Keep at it bro.
Fighting the good fight against accelerationism, authoritarianism, and bad faith. I don't have the emotional energy to do so with any consistency at this time - the 21st century has been very draining. Make sure that you take time for self-care. @pugjesus you too.
LMAO he's clearly getting more and more upvotes. While you're getting downvoted and removed. You're so delusional.
Keep it up though, you're doing a great job of the exact opposite of what you think you're doing.
Who's the alternative candidate with a reasonable shot at winning that has a policy that is more beneficial for Palestinians than Biden?
Don't say something stupid like "polling less than 1% for the 5th time Jill Stein" or "I'm not even sure which party I'm the candidate for but I need to sell some more books Cornell West".
Here's a list of third party candidates to help you out.
every one of theim has a reasonable shot at winning if they run a good campaign. i think cornel west and jill stein are fine candidates.
They have a reasonable shot at winning Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Georgia? Okay...
this reads like an appeal to ridicule. it is not a refutation.
It's not a refutation, its a question expressed with skepticism.
Regardless I don't think anyone is interested in explaining their path to the required 270 electoral college votes, but if you are I'm interested in hearing it.
I don't know what more storytelling you need that. "explain your platform, and earn votes"
Okay, that's not really how politics works at all any where in the world. I guess having such a simplistic and idealistic view of how politics works is what led you to the conclusion that any of the 3rd party candidates had a shot at getting elected.
this is just puffery.
Don't bother fighting with that cunt, he's one of those liberals that loves genocide and wants people to shut up and support it. No amount of talk could convince him to stop supporting genocide or attacking people who don't want to
"Makes me feel real warm and fuzzy inside to know that the pro-minority attitude of the online left isn’t even deep enough to be performative." very funny bullshit coming from someone who's so "pro-minority" he would go all out to defend the mass murder of Palestinians and shut down any attempt to protest it
Do you think they 'hate freedom' too? lol
He hates Palestinian children having the freedom to not starve and not get bombed. He can't shut up about how people critical of the genocide need to shut up and stop supporting trump (bc there's truly nothing more trump-ish than opposing genocide)
I want some of whatever you're smoking!
Idk, It's a little more fun when he's the subject of the chastising than it is seeing all his crocodile tears in my homepage for minorities while he's defending an actual genocide.