julietOscarEcho

joined 2 years ago
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[–] julietOscarEcho 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Read the thread you're commenting on mate.

Under no circumstances should a company be borrowing and paying dividends at the same time

I have no objection to particular instances of imprudent dividend paying being criticised. I specifically rejected this absolute statement.

[–] julietOscarEcho 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Right but if you were not in any danger of default they would think you a dick if you spent nothing on gifts. You're moving the goalposts. The statement was that no dividends should be paid while there is any debt, which as I say is a stupid one.

[–] julietOscarEcho 1 points 1 year ago

It's self serving and short termist in the worst way. We reap the consequences down the road but still bizarrely, and despite all evidence, the view that the private sector is somehow always better persists among some.

[–] julietOscarEcho 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Why? Are you not allowed to give gifts to your family until you pay off your mortgage? Paying dividends while using debt financing isn't inherently imprudent. I would have preferred vital services to remain in the control of the state and think the regulators have been laughably weak in allowing these companies to enfeeble themselves to the benefit of shareholders and ultimate cost to society, but demanding dividends not be paid until a company is debt free, in our current capitalist system (and any remotely similar system) is financially illiterate.

[–] julietOscarEcho 1 points 1 year ago

Because borrowing allows tax efficient financing of operations and business growth. Corporate debt by the way, also allows investors a lower risk way of participating in private enterprise.

"In a non-capitalist society." You mean one in which the joint stock company doesn't exist? Yeah if they didn't exist it would be pretty hard for them to either borrow or pay dividends.

Not trying to make a normative point, but society as it really exists (not some utopian counterfactual) and our legal system makes it very hard for them to do anything else. It would be weird and likely catastrophic if a corporation was like "we're going to deliberately screw over our share holders to pay back our bondholders even though it will probably result in poorer value service to customers because it would dramatically increase our cost of capital".

[–] julietOscarEcho 2 points 2 years ago (10 children)

What? Companies absolutely should borrow and pay dividends at the same time, that totally normal corporate financing. However, companies must also be allowed to fail and cause losses to anyone foolish enough to finance them when they take too much risk.

By definition necessary services like water don't belong in the private sector since we can't allow them to fail. The mistake was not that the company was allowed to pay too many dividends (that's what companies are for). The mistake was that we entrusted this stuff to private enterprise in the first place.

[–] julietOscarEcho 22 points 2 years ago (7 children)

Most people complaining have two weeks of user data...

[–] julietOscarEcho 1 points 2 years ago

Would you say the Internet has sunk to new depths?

[–] julietOscarEcho 6 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Oh no we all think everest ascent is stupid too. Absolutely it's in poor taste. Is this your first time on the Internet?

[–] julietOscarEcho 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Eh its a meme at this point. Everyone knows to what you're referring and recognises the shared experience of overconfident stupid people. Everyone educated on the topic understands that it's a pop psychological misrepresentation of some very interesting work.

I notice it's prevalent in populations that have had an excess of a certain type of "executive" education. Whether they are poorly educated or not... I leave to the reader.

[–] julietOscarEcho 2 points 2 years ago

It's not a culture fair observation to be sure. Your Nobel prize winners I guess we're old (hence part of a generation when smoking was more widespread). There are also countries where smoking is more or less universal.

[–] julietOscarEcho 16 points 2 years ago (5 children)

People died because of their hubristic and needlessly extravagant hobby: visiting the wreck of a vessel that famously killed people because of hubris and needless extravagance. Sure I'm not laughing out loud or celebrating their death, but you must admit there's at least a wry irony here.

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