this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2023
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Reddit Migration

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I don't think many people understand that if they use Lemmy or kbin, they are posting to the fediverse. There are other platforms and will be more to come. Referring to a post on "Lemmy" or "kbin" is like saying you saw a post on your Windows or Mac computer.

We should be referring to it as...

  • I saw it on the fediverse.
  • Hey fediverse users ...
  • A thread on the fediverse...

New terms may emerge but referring to the platform seems weird, almost ignorant.

edit: A better example is email. You wouldn't assume everyone is on Hotmail because that is the email provider you use. You say I'm sendingan eamail, not I'm sending a Hotmail.

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[–] [email protected] 63 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

While you're correct, it's just a clunky term. I think some other way to refer to the whole thing will probably come along soon, and in a few years, people will regard saying fediverse the same way we look back on people talking about "surfing the information superhighway" or whatever.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

Get federated!!!

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I would love it if we just went all early 1990s and started saying "hello Internet!" or something beautifully corny like that.

In the end activitypub is a standard recognized by the W3C, so it would be kind of accurate.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Definitely a clunky term. It will be interesting to see what the feds come up with. Lets see if that catches on :-D

Seriously, I'm sure something good will emerge.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm not convinced that something good will emerge.

Keep in mind we still use "internet".

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Sticking to true Reddit fashion lol

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I’ve been missing this grandiose caliber of post since leaving Reddit, truly bravo.

- Posted to Lemmy

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You didn't actually. You posted to Kbin. Because this thread is on Kbin, even if you're reading it on Lemmy. Which is kind of OP's point.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I did, actually. My instance has a saved copy of the post, I replied to it there, it forwarded the information to Kbin.

OPs point is dumb. Lemmy and Kbin are separate platforms that happen to be interoperable because of the backend protocol they’ve decided to use (which Kbin added relatively recently in the grand scheme). The Fediverse is made up of many of these platforms that are doing the same thing. There is nothing wrong with referring to the platform one is using.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Wouldn't every viewed copy anywhere then be a saved copy of the original post? Does that distinction even mean anything when it's still posting specifically to the original instance?

If I reply in a Lemmy.world thread, I'm still posting on Lemmy.world even if I'm viewing from Kbin.social.

As a comparative example to old and dying social media, it would be like finding a link to a celebrity's Twitter comment on Reddit and you saying you saw the person saying that on Reddit, which would be extremely misleading to anyone listening, thinking that the celebrity had posted it on Reddit.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Well said. If you want to mean all the things connected to ActivityPub, you say Fediverse. If it's restricted to lemmy, use lemmy. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. OP saying it borders on ignorance may have to think about it.

I use lemmy. I don't really care for nor use other Fediverse services like Mastodon.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Go back to lemmy...this kbin country!!!

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think it's more like saying, "I saw this on my phone," or, "I was on the computer and read," which are both entirely reasonable.

It's just stating what format you were using when you saw it. Like, "I was scrolling through Google News and read..." What you actually read was an article hosted on a different website, but you were using the platform of Google News to read it. It's the same kind of thing as saying, "I read on Lemmy," because you were browsing Lemmy when you read something.

It's not wrong to say that these things are on this site. I often specify Lemmy.World because that's the instance that I use and other Fediverse sites function slightly differently. That's one of the both great and annoying things about the Fediverse is how every instance is slightly different. I'll say, "I was on Lemmy.World and..." I don't know, saw a post, made a post, had trouble because mod controls are minimal over here, whatever. Saying, "On the Fediverse," is more generic. It's usually considered best convention to go with more SPECIFIC terms than generic. I consider using my Mastadon account and using my Lemmy account to be different, but they're both on the Fediverse. I would feel really weird talking about my Mastadon account in the same terms as my Lemmy.World one since I use the two platforms completely differently.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

But you are posting on a Kbin thread right now, not a Lemmy thread. So you're not "on Lemmy World" when you're viewing this thread.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

it’s more correct to say they’re on lemmy than kbin though… they are interacting through lemmy: kbin is literally irrelevant to them

… and that’s kinda the point of the fediverse isn’t it? you shouldn’t care where something is stored, and if you don’t care where it’s stored then you have only 1 way to refer to the space: the client by which you’re viewing it

people referring to it as “lemmy” or “kbin” or “mastodon” is the fediverse working as intended, and that’s good news!

(it’s also much better marketing for us! people search fediverse and they get a bunch of random descriptions about what it is… people search lemmy/kbin and at least they have a join button)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

You're absolutely right, presenting an awesome website first and allowing the true nature of the fediverse to sneak up on people is a great way to handle it. Even if someone learns about the fediverse as a whole first somehow, they'll need to figure out what 'portal' into it makes the most sense anyway.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Mastodon is at least something of a more generalized term at least, because that's referring to hundreds of instances. And it has a specific (Twitter-esque) format that unites them. But Lemmy and Kbin has the same formatting structure (Reddit-esque). Makes me wonder if we need a specific, but generalized term that unites everything in this format.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, the Twitter-esque format also extends to Misskey and Pleroma, and there are tons of those accounts interacting seamlessly with Mastodon instances. So in a way those microblogging instances face the same issue you're describing between Lemmy and Kbin. In any case, I'm a fan of 'threadiverse' as a term for the Reddit-like instances.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (7 children)

No. I am on Lemmy.World right now viewing a KBin thread. My entire interaction here is through Lemmy.World and not KBin. So for me to say, "I was on KBin arguing with someone," would be factually incorrect because I am not on KBin. It would be factually correct to say, "I was on the Fediverse arguing with someone," but since the Fediverse has different forms, that interaction itself could take several forms and context does sometimes matter. There's nothing wrong with the more generic The Fediverse, but there's also nothing wrong with stating which instance you're using to be more specific.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Maybe it's even more like "I got an outlook message" instead of "I got an email". Since email is an analog of ActivityPub. Just that people are not used yet to the fact that social media can be interoperable like email, so "saw on lemmy" carries different connotations. It should not, however.

Anecdotically, I have an old frendlica account too, from times of diaspora, and it's now very lively, so I saw this post on frendlica too.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Personally I think "fediverse" is a stupid fucking name. I'm tired of "-verses". I'll keep saying kbin, thanks.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

No 😠 you are not allowed! This is FeDiVeRsE!

/s

Seriously tho, OP is dumb as hell lol

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The thing is just because something is posted to the fediverse doesn't mean everyone can see it. For example, we don't see most Mastodon posts on Lemmy.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think the portmanteau "threadiverse" works for this situation and it's what I've been using to refer to anything in the general Lemmy/kbin side of the fediverse, but I think people just referring to the platform is inevitable. People talk about posts "on Mastodon" even though there's like 15 different services you can use to post to the blogging side of the fediverse, like Pleroma, pump.io, etc. It's worth thinking about in situations where you're like "Hi Lemmy" because you're definitely talking to more than just Lemmy, but any time you're talking about your personal experience of where you saw a thread I think it's perfectly accurate to use the name of that platform rather than having to say you saw it "on the fediverse".

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Threadiverse? 🤨 We found zuck's alt, y'all. Just kidding 😁

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Dude, fediverse is the whole system linking everything together and lemmy/kbin/mastodon is the platform within it. So refer it as fediverse IS saying you saw a post from the internet.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

Actually it’s “GNU/Linux”…

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

fediverse is too close to metaverse imo and thus it sounds dumb

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

And with Threads potentially federating, it's pretty ominous

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

Referring to a post on "Lemmy" or "kbin" is like saying you saw a post on your Windows or Mac computer.

That's not how language works. Language evolves naturally and in this scenario people would instantly know that the user had seen something on a fediverse platform without having to use another awful '-verse' word.

Likewise you can't police how people use language. People use whatever makes understanding for both sides easiest on both sides

If someone logs into a website called Kbin and sees something interesting, it's fair to say 'I saw something interesting on Kbin' without having to give unnecessary explanations about what the fediverse is.

And once again, no one likes the word fediverse...

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

I think your opinion is pretty ignorant

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I personally like to call it "Fedi". I was reading a post / thread on Fedi and it said...
If someone asked where exactly it was I would mention the platform.
And in my opinion, everyone should be mentioning the name of the platform they are on. Because when you mention what software or server you used, it promotes it to non Fediverse people. And it also tells current Fediverse users about other Fedi platforms that they may like, and didn't know about.
That's how I found Misskey, and it's quite cool.
So many options to explore, and try out interfaces that may work better for you.

We are all on the Fediverse, we all should be promoting that in any way we can.
Share, educate and take pride in our diverse community.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Ok but telling others of the specific platform I use is still useful, like if somebody doesn‘t know what a computer is it helps them to hear in Windows or Mac cause then they know what computers there are.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I say "Lemmy" or "Kbin" unless I wanna refer to both then I say the Fediverse.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

This is going to reveal my ignorance:

How does the federation work from a high level? On Reddit, data is stored and managed by Reddit.

How about the fediverse? If the data isn’t centrally located, what is stopping some data from just being lost at any time? Who owns the servers?

If the servers are owned by anyone who wants to own a server, I assume there will still be popular servers that get the most traffic. And if those servers have high traffic, how will they sustain that model? How do they “keep the lights on” without ads?

Thanks for helping me understand.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

My understanding is that most instances are currently being either self-funded (sort of as passion projects), or accepting donations to cover hosting/maintenance costs.

Buy your local admin a coffee!

[–] imaqtpie 3 points 1 year ago (5 children)

https://lemmy.world/comment/20357

This comment was very helpful when I first joined. Long story short, each server is locally storing data for its own users and communities, and also for external communities that at least one user is subscribed to.

Everything is either self or donor funded, and it is my understanding that this model can scale quite a bit without a crazy amount of donations.

But if we get into instances with over a million users, I'm not sure when/if the donor funded model eventually breaks down. That'll be a good problem to have though, because it means this platform will have been a massive success.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

People are used to consuming content from an isolated products - Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, etc. even if the content is a link to another website or social network - the place they saw it and interacted with it, will feel like the source. The fediverse is a new and confusing system for most people. It’ll take a while for even mildly tech savvy people to wrap their head around this.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"fediverse" isn't correct either - it's too broad. Kbin and Lemmy post to a part of the fediverse - the "threadiverse". Meanwhile job in can also post to the microblogverse connecting with Mastodon. And there is not one fediverse - ir is both separated by different algorithms for different bits and also within areas some bits federate with others.

If you want a good term for the threadiverse, then Feddit seems like a good catch all name?

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

If I was browsing Reddit and saw an interesting video, I might tell someone "I saw an interesting video on Reddit the other day" even if the video itself was hosted on YouTube. The technical detail of exactly where and how the video is hosted is not relevant to the conversation. The listener wants to know how I found it, not where it is stored.

The same is true for posts on the fediverse. The various instances are the websites that we browse. The technical detail of how they share content and how it can be accessed from various different routes just isn't important most of the time. If you're a Lemmy user, you're reading the posts on Lemmy and there is nothing wrong with talking about it that way.

If I tell someone I bought a game on Steam or borrowed a book from the library, the fact that they are also available elsewhere doesn't matter. If I tell someone I read something on kbin, does it matter that the same post also exists on different websites? 99% of the time, the answer is 'no'.

New terms may emerge but referring to the platform seems weird, almost ignorant.

I agree, but you've got it upsidedown. The fediverse is the platform that the instances operate on, not vice-versa.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Personally I agree, but we all know what someone means when they say "posting on Lemmy" etc. I simply make it a point to refer to it as "the fediverse" in my own posts. Eventually people will catch onto the right terminology, especially as more software platform options become available for the Fediverse ... like Threads (though those ppl will probably always call it Threads because that will be all they know and understand of it).

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