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340

Far-right populist Javier Milei fails to win first round of Argentina’s presidential election (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 10 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

53 comments fedilink hide all child comments

The eccentric far-right populist Javier Milei has failed to win the first round of Argentina’s presidential election, with the centrist finance minister Sergio Massa unexpectedly beating his radical challenger.

Supporters of Milei, a potty-mouthed political outsider described as an Argentinian mashup of Donald Trump, Jair Bolsonaro and Boris Johnson, had hoped he was heading for a sensational outright victory similar to Bolsonaro’s shock triumph in Brazil in 2018.

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[–] [email protected] 62 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (8 children)

Comparing Milei to Trump or Bolsonaro is very, very misleading.

Milei is has radical capitalist / free market ideology, but is far removed from social conservatism.

Just to give you an idea, he wants to close the argentinian central bank and kill the national currency or let it kill itself with a free floating exchange rate.

Such a move is the opposite of what alt-right / fascism would do which seeks governmental control of media, industrial and financial institutions.

If anything, the current ruling party "Union for the motherland" (Union por la patria) openly advocates and defends Peronism which is a sort of decaf fascist ideology heavy in nationalism and populism thinly clothed in laborist rethoric to make it seem left wing. Current ruling party which btw has lead the country to over 300% inflation (if you take the free exchange rate as a reference since the official exchange rate is manipulated and it is illegal for argentines to freely buy foreign currency except for a small token amount).

Just to make it easier to understand. If you're familiar with the political compass:

Current ruling party leans top left
Milei is solidly bottom right
Trump is top right.

These are three very very different quadrants.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 10 months ago (1 children)

but is far removed from social conservatism.

Whats His opinion on abortion and crime?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

On abortion it looks like he opposes it outside of cases where the mother's life is in danger. On crime his wiki is pretty vague just that he wants to 'crack down' on crime and prohibit migrants with a criminal history from entry.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Let me put it better for you, he wants to ban abortion and he wants to let people form vigilante mobs to take care of crime and bring back the dictatorship, which he is keen on whitewashing

[–] [email protected] -1 points 10 months ago

The lame thing is if that wasn't his main social policies I would understand his voters a lot more.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

So he's a social conservative?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago (6 children)

I know nothing about economy, but isn't a bad idea to put all your chips into a currency that you do not hold any control over?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago

As Vis mentioned, it is the better option if the government can't stop itself from printing money and fucks everyone over.

This is the inflation rate of Ecuador before and after they adopted the dollar in 2000.

Milei now wants to do the same. At least this way people will be able to save (and spend their savings), and the government will have to be fiscally responsible.

The world has run directly or indirectly on gold (which can't be printed) until 1973, so it's definitely possible for an economy to work with a currency you can't print.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (5 children)

Ecuador and Puerto Rico already did it. Panamá did something similar.

I totally understand the initiative. Corruption can be so damn high, that you trust gringo central bank more than any institution of your own country.

edit: typos

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago

Did you conflate Puerto Rico with Costa Rica? Puerto Rico uses USD, and has since the late 1800s when they became a territory of the US.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Puerto Rico has been using the United States dollar as its official currency since 1898. This change occurred when the United States took control of Puerto Rico as a result of the Treaty of Paris, ending the Spanish-American War. Since then, the U.S. dollar has been the official and only legal tender in Puerto Rico, and the island's monetary system is fully integrated with that of the United States. Puerto Rico did not choose USD. It was chosen for them when Spain ceded their American colony to the US.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Puerto Rico is a literal colony. Not the best example

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I think they may have confused Puerto Rico with Costa Rica? Costa Rica devalued their currency around 2013-2014 IIRC, and they don't use USD the way PR does.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

Puerto Ricans are (admittedly disenfranchised on the federal level) full USA citizens -- they're Americans. They have self-rule insofar as any other state does, freedom of movement in the USA, etc.

The USA has had colonies in even the "recent" past, but nothing that can really be called that these days.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Excelent example as it implies the damage to sovereignty it takes.

You know. Pros and cons...

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Not really. Puerto Rico’s use of USD is much closer tied to the fact that it’s citizens are full US citizens. It’s not like we bought them or they collapsed and eventually fell under our control. No we went to war with Spain, mostly to get Cuba, and they were one of the islands we got when we won. They became a territory that’s capable of statehood while other winnings like Cuba and the Philippines were released and as they became sovereign states adopted their own currency. The only states we purchased were in the middle of the mainland, under the gold standard, and because Napoleon was broke.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

Well we also bought Alaska from Russia for dirt cheap and Putin made some butthurt comment about it recently.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

El Salvador was the other one aside from Ecuador and Panamá.

Puerto Rico is a us Territory and uses USD. Costa Rica has their own currency with cute sloths and monkeys on their notes.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

Trusting the central bank of a country that gave permission, founding and training to the military juntas all over South America to commit crimes against humanity is pretty darn stupid if you ask me...

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

we have problems with governments over printing. this shit has happened again and again for decades and it won't stop.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

Yes, but the alternative is what we have now.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

Normal people have zero control over the US Dollar, but also have zero control over the Argentinian Peso... and the Argentinian Peso has 140% inflation per year.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

A few nations of this: Ecuador, El Salvador, East Timor, Zimbabwe, etc

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Milei probably has a small resemblance with DT. Maybe just a small percentage, but that is enough to call him a Full DT by the press in the rest of world. It is just cheap press.

The guy has a lot of cons and pros. But he is not a DT. He is mainly an economist. Not a businessman.

Argentina as always is a sinking ship with a lot of holes. Every year there are more holes. They still have not found a party that can close those holes. And there were only 3 big parties.

Perhaps a new party (like the one from Milei) manages to start closing some of those holes. Perhaps they keep opening holes like the current party. Even if you put the best party ever made, it would take 15-30 years maybe more to recover. You have a lot of adults that never worked (legally) and live from the state. It takes time to educate the new generations letting them know that money is not always a free thing that comes without working. (And you cannot tell them "now you have to find a job" in the short term otherwise the country will go violent. Therefore no matter how far right the party is. It always end up adapting to a situation to control the masses that requires socialism).

Time will tell about what will happen if the same party (probably was the worst government in the past 30 years) wins the election. But nowadays the country is at worst since I was born. 40% poverty (oficial, real is perhaps higher ), 100+% annual inflation (not even the old 20-30% annual). It is probable that the current government will never leave and will stay on power just like it happens in many other countries, like Venezuela. (While it is still a totally different country, we always compare to Venezuela because the current party always liked Venezuela as a role model to follow).

I hope not! But with 40+% poverty... soon there will not be enough tax payers to cover the costs but maybe hyperinflation puts a stop to the excess of public spending (printing ARS money) to solve any problem.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

Are there even politicians in Argentina that aren't socially conservative? He is by default

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (3 children)

the fucking gall of calling massa centrist. shit-tier journalism.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I'm not familiar with Argentinian politics. What would you call him?

Most things I read the last few days called him left wing. But things get fuzzy calling people/parties left/right, especially across different continents.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

They're kinda center/left. For anyone right, They're basically communist, and for anyone left they are neolibs who co-opted social issues to keep the economic status quo on place.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

Wait, if you were speaking about Massa... Oh boy, that is a hell of ride. He is center right. Peronism is kind of a mix of different pokitical ideologies mashed into one that works because tries to keep extremism to a minimum. And because they are very good user of demagogia and political oportunism. They're not leftist. Some would say they are similar to US Democrats.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

A POS? Okay, maybe that just my marxism speaking, but he is a right winger. Socially conservative, economically ultraliberal. And that is usually not a really good combination. Add to that that his party is filled with Plan Condor denialists and apologists and you have quite a cocktail to drink there. For us leftist, he's like Videla all over again (but without the power ofc)

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

Since I'm rather uninformed on the topic, what would you consider him instead?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 10 months ago

Watching Americans become interested in Argentine politics for the first time in my life feels wild, like, they have no fucking clue but they care so much. I'm enjoying it ngl.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So, it’s again a case of“vote for the crook, not the fascist”?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I would argue this is more like, vote for the fascist, not the fascist.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Citizens of Argentina! The cruelty of the old regime is a thing of the past!

[crowd cheers]

Let a whole new wave of cruelty wash over this lazy land!

[crowd cheers, then is confused]

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Tiberius is dead! Long live the new Emperor, Caligula!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

That is how it feels to listen to Milei. I hope he loses badly. We didn't need more right wingers in Congress and now there are two of them!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

Addressing hundreds of euphoric supporters at his campaign HQ, Massa gave a sober speech vowing to lead a national unity government that would kickstart “a new phase in Argentina’s political history”.

The result leaves Argentina poised for another month of profound uncertainty, economic turbulence and fake news before the showdown between Massa and Milei, a libertarian economist who only entered the world of politics when he was elected to congress in 2021.

Marcela Pagano, a television journalist running for a place in congress for La Libertad Avanza, predicted angry voters were poised to “boot out” the traditional politicians many blame for plunging 40% of citizens into poverty and triple-digit inflation.

Prominent members of South America’s extreme-right flew to Argentina hoping for a Milei triumph that would boost their movement after its leading light, Brazil’s Bolsonaro, lost power last year to the leftist Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva in October 2022.

Massa and his allies stepped up their campaign after Milei’s stunning victory in August’s primary – a dress rehearsal for the election – scrapping income tax for most citizens and seeking to distance themselves from former president Cristina Fernández de Kirchner.

The original article contains 1,024 words, the summary contains 220 words. Saved 79%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

This comments are full of copium lol

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Bob Pinciotti at it again.

[–] naught 1 points 10 months ago

Bargain Bob is coming for your currency

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

I'd vote for him

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

Massa a new phase? I think he meant a new face.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 10 months ago

He's running against a guy that is part of the current government as financial minister none the less, that is leaving 50% poor, 140% inflation. That has devalued the coin by 750% so far

The guy says we should cut down spending. And now he's Hitler.

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