this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2023
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Relaxed section for discussion and debate that doesn't fit anywhere else. Whether it's advice, how your week is going, a link that's at the back of your mind, or something like that, it can likely go here.


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hello! this is just a thing i'd like to personally note. it speaks for myself, and where it does not expresses sentiments we've already placed somewhere else. this is not a moderator document or anything, and it will not be stickied.

i'm infinitely grateful that all of you have decided to join us here, and the community has had very few issues with moderation or general unpleasantness to this point. i'm also been greatly appreciative of the support this community has already given us both financially and with your time and energy in keeping the site up and well tuned.

with that said: please temper your expectations of what is technically possible with the website and be patient about what is. there are literally thousands of you to accommodate now, and a finite number of hours to do it with.

more specifically: we (the Admins) are four people, only two of which have actual experience running or maintaining anything in the same universe of what we're managing now. we're more comfortable moderationally, but on the technical side we are flying this by the seat of our pants. none of us are big on coding, so we're not really able to add to Lemmy's base functionalities. Lemmy itself has very limited base functionalities, many of which we're trying to work around or with and constrain us in what we can do or how. a lot of options we have at our disposal to make stuff run are binary, and a lot of the not-binary options are confusing.

we're sure this will get better eventually, but from that point follows this reality: we simply cannot currently (and may not in the future either, to be honest with you) accommodate a lot of what you might think we're able to do, or expect because Reddit had it either through an app or the base function of the site. this software hasn't had 15 years to mature in functionality and community addons like Reddit--and while it's their full time gig, the upstream software is still maintained by just two people who also run the flagship instance here. they have a lot of shit on their plate too; we're lucky they can even take time to get to our notes!

and that last point also brings us to a final thing to emphasize: this is not a full time job for any of us and our insistence is that it doesn't become one. i think doing this full time would be fucking miserable, personally, and i think i can speak for all of us in saying full-time working on this site is literally not something we can commit to. it has to be that way for this to be a solvent project.

if we split the balance of our donations equitably right now--all of which is site money, to be clear, we only use it for keeping the site online and paying for any labor we might source to someone else--that'd work out to just $500 per person, which is not even a week of compensation at a wage of $15/hr. collectively, we have probably put in well over full-time hours just to keep the site going this week, and we did that last week too. we expect we'll be doing this all month. that splitting also wouldn't account for our volunteers who do most of the technical stuff, who have probably put in even more hours than we have, and who i personally think would deserve compensation before we do. (our site would be kind of fucked without them right now.)

all this to say: please be mindful of whether what you're asking of us is even possible. we are trying really hard here and it's not like a lot of what is brought up is invalid (i generally agree theoretically with a lot of what people have been bringing to us), but at least during our influx we absolutely and simply cannot promise much of anything past "the site is online and moderated in accordance with our values".

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Your work IS appreciated :)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Thank you for putting all that time and work into building and maintaining the server and community. I think you've carved out a great place for yourselves here and I appreciate being part of it (in some way or another). I'd volunteer myself but unfortunately I can't help much with the technical issues and I'm very light on time for actual moderating duty, which I've also had to drop on Reddit. But I did set up a monthly donation to help with the costs of running this and I'll probably keep it running until I stop using Lemmy, which might be never.

Thanks for being honest and transparent and I can only emphasise that you guys have done a wonderful job so far. Take a well deserved break as soon as you can please.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

This has been amazing so far. I wouldn't let the request stress you out. If it's one thing I've learned from working in startups or small orgs is that it's just impossible to fulfill all the different asks, but at the same time, it's super encouraging when people do create asks because it shows that they are engaged.

Big thank you to all of you admins and volunteers for building this out.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I am grateful for what has already been achieved, it already ticks most of the boxes i needed. I hope everyone continues to be kind to yall, and thanks.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Thank you so much for everything you're already doing! It's incredibly appreciated. I will be donating when I get my paycheck in later this month.

Y'all are awesome! :)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

There are at least dozens of us that sincerely appreciate you. I hope you see an increase in donations as I know it's a primary way many of us can contribute to the community.

Let me try this again: THANK YOU!!! so very much for creating a community with kindness at the core!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Massive props to y'all!!! I set up my monthy donation already. When you went down yesterday, I thought, nbd, they must be dealing with a deluge, I'll come back later.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Thank you for your work. I hope you soon reach a balance that respects your well-being. Take good care of yourselves :)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As a fellow admin, I'm very curious what technical issues you have had, and what the solution looked like for some of them. If you have time to share of course!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

no time to explain a lot right now, but I created an organisation on my personal Gitea where we'll probably make the configs public: https://code.tilde.fun/beehaw

most of the issues are nginx config (amount of workers, ulimits, open files, rate limits) and having to restart lemmy because it's overwhelmed and OOMs.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Appreciate the hard work bub.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Every once in a while, I run into a small UI issue I might grumble a little about; now I’m wondering if I’d genuinely want to start contributing my frontend dev experience and time to make a few things better.

Granted, I already have end-of-day side projects I don’t put enough time into, so the answer may be No…

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Thank you for your efforts to keep the community positive and the site running.

Please take care of yourself and watch out that you don't burn out. The one thing which is worse for a community than a stressed admin/mod is a burnt out one.

Your post sounds like (I am not a qualified professional, this is not a diagnosis!) you're currently in stage 3 (of 12, so 25% of the way to the end) of burnout, symptoms being Negligence of one's own needs (social contacts, rest and relaxation are no longer as important as before. One has the feeling that one cannot take time for this).

If that's really the case, try to hear your own needs and take a step back once you feel it's too much.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Thank you all for all of the work you've put in to make Beehaw the amazing place it is! For the record, that last line is the extent of my desires from the admins/mods here, as long as it's maintainable for y'all. I've hit burnout multiple times already throughout my life, so please listen to those of us who ask you to make sure you give yourselves time to decompress and not work on things - it's so incredibly easy to fall into a mindset where you feel compelled to keep going until you have nothing left (especially when you care deeply about your work), but it's not sustainable and it will cause you a wide variety of harm.

I also appreciate you beginning work on placing boundaries and managing expectations. I know there are tons of folks making all kinds of requests under the assumption that since you're an admin, you make the software (since that's often how it works elsewhere), but those people are going to have to realize that the federated nature of Lemmy means that you have no responsibility for bug and feature development, just getting the software to run, establishing and cultivating the culture, and keeping the lights on.

I wish I could devote time and energy to helping with bugs and feature requests, but my day job and the homestead that I'm working on getting set up with my wife take up more of those than I have available, to be entirely frank. Maybe when a couple of my bigger personal projects are done I can look at familiarizing myself with the codebase and contributing, but for now I will have to limit it to sending good vibes and supportive words wherever I can. You've all done a fantastic job setting up an honest-to-goodness community here, and I look forward to seeing it carry on! Don't grind yourselves down trying to fulfill every request and expectation brought up to you; you have supporters here who see and appreciate you, and there's only so much you can do.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Really solid work from everyone on the team. I'm very grateful for what's been created already and it's good that you have clear and solid boundaries for the future. You should be proud!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

If there are bugs that pop up that need solving, I'd be happy to contribute. Feel free to DM me with anything specific, the main Devs definitely have a few big things on their plate.

For the moment I'm planning to start getting familiar with the codebase.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Thanks for running Beehaw! I started up my own instance now that I saw you guys running one and its been fun experimenting with it and self-hosting.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Thank you for putting this up and keeping it up, I know it is a lot of hard work.

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