this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2023
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[–] [email protected] 77 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It's not that radical, we lived with less than this for tens of thousands of years before the industrial revolution.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 11 months ago (3 children)

This sounds nice for someone in a developed country who has all they need, and is only satisfying their wants. But for most of the world, economic development is a necessity and a lifesaver. Child mortality is reduced, life expectancy and education level increased, child labor decreased, as a country's economy grows. This is not a fringe right-wing idea. This is the very real effect of economic growth in developing countries, i.e. most of the world.

Degrowthers often seem to forget that applying their ideas will literally kill millions in developing countries, by preventing the economic developments that would have saved them.

FWIW, I am not a fan of unbridled capitalism either but think that it is important to consider science in important matters like this and not just go with gut feeling. That applies to both fascism and degrowth.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I think a more fair take is that we need growth in underdeveloped places and degrowth in highly developed places. It's less about changing the total economic output and more about changing how that output is distributed.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 11 months ago (8 children)

Degrowth addresses that, contrary to your opinion. Degrowth in the global north provides the space for the global south to properly develop, something that has been systematically denied to them in many places by western powers through unequal exchange and neocolonialism.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago

It seems like the choice is to die from the environmental issues or die from poor health care? There is no way anyone survives with the current state of things.

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[–] [email protected] 49 points 11 months ago (2 children)

The article is, in my opinion, purposely mischaracterizing the degrowth movement. I would say degrowth is more a natural reaction to the excesses of capitalism than movement about addressing climate change.

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 11 months ago (15 children)

How about we do two things

Like how about we work less and we immediately and totally nationalize energy and agriculture haha just a thought haha (fireflies are going extinct haha)

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Way ahead of you, energy has already been nationalized here for a long time.

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 11 months ago (2 children)

This will go the same way the "Green New Deal" did. It will scare the ruling class, the ruling class will send its media minions to demonize it, and nothing will change. doomer

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago (1 children)

no actually, you forgot the final step of "loudly and blindly double down"

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

You mean like destroying new light bulbs and rolling coal to trigger the wokes? libs-owned

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (3 children)

But the phone is 5% lighter this time!

... and will be replaced in a year this-is-fine

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Protip: if you want your movement to gain any political traction, don't call it the degrowth movement

[–] [email protected] 24 points 11 months ago (4 children)

What would you call it? Its kinda like the "defund police" thing. If they called it "reallocate police resources" opposition to the movement would just use the stronger "defund police" language as a cudgel to smear it. It's best to own it and educate

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Pro tip: any one telling you the problem with your movement is the optics, doesn't actually care about the objectives of thst movement

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago

Defund Wall St.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (2 children)

why? it's exactly what it is.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Because the average person is too dumb

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (7 children)

In order to slow the economy down and not wreak havoc, he said, we have to reconfigure our ideas about the entire economic system.

This is how degrowthers envision the process: After a reduction in material and energy consumption, which will constrict the economy, there should also be a redistribution of existing wealth, and a transition from a materialistic society to one in which the values are based on simpler lifestyles and unpaid work and activities.

Sounds good to me. It is a fair point that the basic operation of our society depends on continual growth, but redistribution seems like it would be an effective way of mitigating those problems degrowth might cause. We have more than enough resources to keep everyone alive, we just have to use them.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 11 months ago (3 children)

You don't need to wait, you can start this now on your own. Is it easy? F*ck no. Can it be done? Yes, and once you are used to it, it's a great way to live.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago

"Turn on, tune in, drop out" 2.0

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

Yes, we'll save ourselves by resetting the clock and never undoing the conditions that led to where we are

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