Ask Lemmy

What you're missing is some men legitimately hate their wives and children and dislike spending time with them. Others drank the coolaid of American capitalist propaganda. Your child will only be a newborn once and your wife will need the help. If anything you should be normalizing it by telling all your friends and colleagues how great it is and how happy you are to get to spend that time with your family. Never shut up about how awesome it is. Expound at length about the many benefits you personally enjoyed thanks to your time with your new child. Every man you convince makes the world a better place.

You’re the smart one. Fuck the haters. Ignore them.

Ignore them. If you can, should you try and stagger the time off with your s/o. Don't take it at the same time.

First of all dont tell your coworkers shit. It almost always becomes ammo for them later.

Definitely take advantage of every state program you can. You paid for it already. People talkin shit are fuckin smoothbrained trogs

I came into this thread thinking I'd just post "Uhh, it was pretty nice?"

Then I read the post text. Jesus fuck.

The other comments are probably right, no real point in doing anything but ignoring them. But goddamn, my first instinct would be to try and call them out on that bullshit attitude. No way am I clever enough to do it effectively, though.

Those first few months, especially with your first kid… man. The sleep deprivation alone makes it worth it. Not to mention all the firsts that happen so fast that you’ll otherwise miss… presumably to work for “the man.”

Am American, but been lucky enough to work with people who understand this, and maxed out all paternity leave I could get.

Fuck those people dude. When it comes to children. The days are long, but the years are short. Enjoy the time you have with them when they are little and don't miss out on all those amazing moments. I took 12 weeks with my kid and it was wonderful to just watch her grow. Take benefits where you can, fuck the haters.

Pretty sure THEY are the ones missing something. They've been brainwashed into thinking you should be embarrassed NOT to shun your family so you can be at work 24/7 to make someone else rich. Take advantage of that program while it still exists.

Enjoy it. A great number of people in the US have been conditioned to tie up their sense of worth to their job, and can’t comprehend there’s more to life.

I’d take 12 years paternity leave if I could.

I'm fortunate to work at a place that offers some leave for paternity, but with the option of being "flexible" about it. I've seen most of my coworkers take off for 2-4 weeks (out of 6), then return to work half time or so once things start settling. Two have taken all 6 weeks, one for medical reasons (baby needed follow up), and one purely to spend more time with baby/wife.

I haven't needed paternity leave, so I don't know how much more money you get for returning to work early, but I think I'm inclined towards taking 3 weeks, then coming back to work unless there's something wrong. There's a bunch to admire about prioritizing your time bonding over money, and I don't want to take anything away from that - it's just not me.

My main thought on paternity leave is that it should be exactly the same as the maternity leave so that there is no difference between hiring a man or a woman.

Any man that thinks work is more important than spending time with the family is a bad father. I say this as the son of a bad father.

It is a no brainer dude. Absolutely take the leave. You know how the work culture is here in the US, it's pretty ridiculous. The "Live to Work" crowd is getting pretty old now though so I have seen a shift in corporate culture where I am at.

Work is something I do, not who I am.

Americans have been indoctrinated to feel their work is their worth.

It's just hyperbolic masculine capitalism being parroted. Live in the U.S. south and have dealt with many friends and their relatives who have said the same shit. I've been around long enough to see those same people completely fall apart when the lives at home just crumble because they're too busy with work (illness, deaths in family, etc). They always eventually come to regret the decisions and times they've missed once they get in their later years.

There's nothing wrong with choosing to prioritize a work career in one's life though, but hating on someone else's choice is just ridiculous.

Life at home would have to be pretty bad for me to rather be at work.

When my daughter was born, I was blown away to find that my company offered 16 weeks paternity leave. A couple of weeks before my wife was due, I was talking to a coworker and found that his wife was also pregnant, but he didn't know about our company's parental leave policy. He had only been planning to take a couple of weeks. After we talked I found out he took the whole thing.

That four months was one of the greatest times of my life, getting to know my newborn daughter.

Three years later I was in a different job when my son was born. They offered three days. Six months later I found a new job, and I took an extra month off during the transition, just so I could spend every day with my son.

I don't regret any of that. I can't even imagine what that would feel like. I love my children and love being a dad. This is life. This is all we get.

I have four kids and I took ~6 weeks of paternity leave for each of them (which was in my contract—I’m an Episcopal priest, though I still went in on Sundays because I was going to go to church regardless so I might as well lead services and save the parish money on paying what we call a “supply priest”). It’s absolutely worth it and don’t let anyone make you feel weird about it. You’re doing a great thing for your partner and child—as well as yourself. Babies are a lot of work for dads as well! Acting like dads don’t need paternity leave is a form of patriarchy.

What moron would pass up on 85% paid leave??

I don't think you're missing anything. I think that your co-workers bragging is one of the toxic effects of how we tend to think about productivity nowadays, especially in America. I think that there's a tendency to glorify suffering (i.e. sacrificing time with your family to do so much work that by the time you get home to your family, you're too exhausted to be fully present with them).

I know fathers who effectively didn't have a choice about spending time with their newborns, because of a mixture of social pressures (especially gendered pressure from extended family) and financial pressure (such as not having access to paternity leave), who then go on to brag about how much they worked and sacrificed, framing it as if it's a choice they're glad they made. I think that for some people, this nonsense rhetoric is what they tell themselves to cope with the fact they were effectively coerced into something they regret.

Long story short, you're not missing anything. You are, in some ways though, going against the grain: even in places that have paid paternity leave, that alone isn't enough to change the tide of social attitudes. That change happens because of people like you who go "fuck this nonsense, I'm not making a martyr of myself to support my family when I can do a much better job supporting them if I'm there with them".

Unfortunately, based on reports from friends who are fathers, this is just scratching the surface of people being weird about men who are enthusiastic and engaged fathers. It sounds like you've got your priorities in order though. Your coworkers are very silly, and even if you don't feel it appropriate or necessary to tell them how absurd they are, you should at least internalise the fact that you are the sensible one here. An analogy that comes to mind is how, if your employer matches your 401k contributions, it's a no-brainer to take advantage of what is basically free money. If someone has "spare" salary and asked for financial advice online, one of the first and most basic suggestions is often that if you're not already taking advantage of any 401k match your employer offers, you definitely should be. It's free money! Similarly, taking advantage of the paid paternity leave is a no-brainer. This isn't a challenge run in a video-game, so there aren't any prizes for making things needlessly harder for oneself.

Edit: Also, I bloody hate it when people say shit like this:

"Most men are hard working and want to support their families so they don't take leave".

The subtext they're saying here is "I don't acknowledge parenting (and other caring labour) as being hard work, and I certainly don't acknowledge how critical essential this labour is for the world to function. I assume that this work is primarily for women, because this allows me to ignore it and the people who do it, which allows me to feel more important. The only way I can maintain my self identity as 'hardworking' is if I implicitly demean others' hard work".

It's bullshit, and your instincts are right to flag this shit as weird. Parenting is bloody difficult, and anyone who makes comments like this are actively reinforcing old systems that led to many fathers not being given the opportunity to be active fathers.

Anyway, rant finished. I'll finish this edit with something I forgot to say in my main comment: congratulations, and good luck in the weeks to come. And well done on taking this paternity leave, because that helps to disrupt the existing, outdated systems of traditional family structure that make everyone miserable. The impact of one person's choice is only small, but if enough people opt for their family over slaving over the altar of capitalism, I hope that we can build a world where a father wanting to actively be a father is treated like the normal thing it is.

I bet you're an awesome husband and dad. If you can afford it, it's absolutely a no brainer.

the us serious lacking the amount of leave you need, or makes its super-convoluted.

It's a psychological defense, "I did this and it was ok and it's the right thing to do, so everyone must do it too". It's like backwards logic, like, I think it's s good idea simply because I was forced to do it and that's the only way it makes the whole thing ok.

Also related: toxic culture of "toughen up".

The brain works in quirky ways. There's real studies that show that if something is higher price people attribute better characteristics to it.

Good for you! That time with your family is really important.

I'm from the US and I caused quite a stir when I took 4 weeks off; 3 days paternity leave and the rest was accrued vacation. HR was trying to convince me to break it up because "it would self a bad precedent." But my boss was supportive and approved it anyway.

You must be American...

Holy shit, 12 weeks ! I'm from France and paternity leave is notoriously lacking (compared to other forms of welfare that exist alongside it). I feel 12 weeks is generous and fantastic.

Enjoy your leave. You obviously have the sense to know that you are taking it for: your wife, your child and your mental health. You will give your family a better head start. Corporate won't notice. If they are going to fire you, they'll do it even if you had spent the time period working double overtime instead of being on leave.

Don't listen to those morons. Paternity leave is a legit great way to stay with your wife and children when they need it the most.

I've seen my coworkers take paternity leave, which I think is like 8 weeks where I work.

Generally, they've staggered it with their spouse so that one parent is working and the other on child care, rather than both being out over the same window. Typically the Dad's have taken their leave a couple months after the baby is born when Mom is returning to work. It keeps the baby out of daycare for as long as possible.

Absolutely take paternity. Why wouldn't you?

12 weeks paternity leave at 85% salary? Damn, that's sweet, even by many EU standards.

I wouldn't think twice about taking it.

My US company went ham on paternity leave. I adopted a 3-day-old and got 12 weeks leave.

I provided pretty decent support from home for my position for the first week, I did small things and help people in my department get up to speed on what I had to do. I was kind of sleep deprived but they needed the help to start with. 9 times out of 10 I was holding the baby because at that age there's not much you're doing other than holding feeding or changing them. And that's what they really need.

I then took a solid 6 weeks of only minimal interactions. I would drop in on occasional daily meetings mostly so I knew what was going on.

The vast majority of my work can happen from home. The sleep deprivation and bonding time are the important things to take care of, along with giving my partner a decent level of support and adjustment time. Putting in a little work here and there in between things actually gave me a little bit of mental stimulus when I needed it.

The six to eight week period, I ramped up a little more and remotely attended most meetings. I started coming in a few times a week from 8 to 12 weeks so that my partner didn't feel my support just fall off a cliff for 8 hours a day.

It's important to get that early bonding time in, it's important to give your partner the support they need to adjust. I honestly feel that what I did makes a lot more sense than just 12 weeks of off time. I think I'd probably rather have 8 weeks solid and then have another 4 weeks of flexible PTO that I could take around them learning to crawl, walk, have medical issues.

Nothing about child rearing fits nicely into a 12-week box.

Your coworkers desperately need class consciousness, working until your bones give out is not "supporting your family" its being a wage slave.