this post was submitted on 16 Jan 2025
247 points (97.0% liked)

Privacy

32784 readers
1084 users here now

A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.

Some Rules

Related communities

much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Copied from the reddit post:

Hi all, last night, a post from last year from my personal X account suddenly became a topic of discussion here on Reddit. I want to share a few thoughts on this to provide clarity to the community on what is Proton's policy on politics going forward.

First, while the X post was not intended to be a political statement, I can understand how it can be interpreted as such, and it therefore should not have been made. While we will not prohibit all employees from expressing personal political opinions publicly, it is something I will personally avoid in the future. I lean left on some issues, and right on other issues, but it doesn't serve our mission to publicly debate this. It should be obvious, but I will say that it is a false equivalence to say that agreeing with Republicans on one specific issue (antitrust enforcement to protect small companies) is equal to endorsing the entire Republican party platform.

Second, officially Proton must always be politically neutral, and while we may share facts and analysis, our policy going forward will be to share no opinions of a political nature. The line between facts, analysis, and opinions can be blurry at times, but we will seek to better clarify this over time through your feedback and input.

The exception to these rules is on the topics of privacy, security, and freedom. These are necessarily political topics, where influencing public policy to defend these values, often requires engaging politically.

The operations of Proton have always reflected our neutrality. For example, recently we refused pressure to deplatform both Palestinian student groups and Zionist student groups, not because we necessarily agreed with their views, but because we believe more strongly in their right to have their own views.

It is also a legal guarantee under Swiss law, which explicitly prohibits us from assisting foreign governments or agencies, and allows us no discretion to show favoritism as Swiss law and Swiss courts have the final say.

The promise we make is that no matter your politics, you will always be welcome at Proton (subject of course to adherence to our terms and conditions). When it comes to defending your right to privacy, Proton will show no favoritism or bias, and will unconditionally defend it irrespective of the opinions you may hold.

This is because both Proton as a company, and Proton as a community, is highly diverse, with people that hold a wide range of opinions and perspectives. It's important that we not lose sight of nuance. Agreeing/disagreeing with somebody on one point, rarely means you agree/disagree with them on every other point.

I would like to believe that as a community there is more that unites us than divides us, and that privacy and freedom are universal values that we can all agree upon. This continues to be the mission of the non-profit Proton Foundation, and we will strive to carry it out as neutrally as possible.

Going forward, I will be posting via u/andy1011000. Thank you for your feedback and inputs so far, and we look forward to continuing the conversation.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 12 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Assuming Andy Chen isn’t American, this is understandable:

“It should be obvious, but I will say that it is a false equivalence to say that agreeing with Republicans on one specific issue (antitrust enforcement to protect small companies) is equal to endorsing the entire Republican party platform.”

But it’s extremely tone deaf to Americans who live within the two party duopoly in the US, and who are sensitive to the fact that you can’t really be a compromise between the two (as politics stand, currently)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 hours ago

This makes sense to me from a framing perspective. As an American myself, despite my best efforts, I still fall into the same trap of sort of assuming everything is much more American centric than it actually is, including other people's opinions on American politics from outside America.

His post does come off as wildly tone deaf, but seeing how he would have perceived it, it makes a lot of sense. He endorses policy by a party that shared his values, and then gets pushback for it from people who support his values. I'd probably be as confused as him if I was in his shoes.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

So, we just believe that Proton, being buddy-buddy with Trump, isn't going to turn around, and stab us in the backs?

Call me "skeptical".

[–] phlegmy 4 points 4 hours ago

Maybe I missed something, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that Andy/Proton likes Trump?
They said they agreed with one decision the republican party made, and pointed out how the democrats have been prioritising corporate interests.

But what do I know, I'm not American, so I'm not incapable of understanding nuance like most Americans on the internet seem to be.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 19 hours ago

"Here at Proton, we believe that all life is sacred, thats why we gave the IP addresses of pregnant teens who are planning to get an abortion"

(even compiling the user client yourself won't protect against IP logging, also, external emails arrive at proton servers in plain text)

[–] Vendetta9076 20 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Literally none of this matters and its all just noise. American politics and Americans themselves are insane.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 day ago (1 children)

a post from last year from my personal X account suddenly became a topic of discussion here on Reddit.

You mean last month right.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 day ago

this is the most "i think my userbase are idiots" statement anybody could make. like do you think we dont know how time works andy? fuck you

[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 day ago (2 children)

we refused pressure to deplatform both Palestinian student groups and Zionist student groups

Insane equivocation. One of those is a national and ethnic group; the other is a political movement whose pet project is currently on trial for genocide... "we refused pressure to deplatform both Jewish student groups and National Socialist student groups"

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

“we refused pressure to deplatform both Jewish student groups and National Socialist student groups”

They are a Swiss company, yes.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 hours ago

Went to the replies to say this. You got here before me

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I think that's the entire point of the comment. They are impartial even to evil. They respect privacy.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Impartial to evil is... Well, just evil.

If I walk past a person beheading 3 people who have done nothing wrong, and am able to in fact stop it, and don't... I'm just as fucking evil as the guy doing the beheading.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago

Indeed. When privacy gets involved it's gets dicey and awkward.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

i agree with you, but the company has now invited scrutiny openly by allowing a) andy to make this tweet (personal accout or no) and b) andy to make a follow up statement using the proton reddit account. people have a distaste now, so expect to see everything you say and do to be overanalyised.

[–] [email protected] 54 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

He should not have @'d Trump. By doing this he is explicitly calling for the incoming administration's attention and signalling he's willing to play ball and bend the knee. Also nice try at obfuscation saying the tweet was from last year, jackass.

Additionally the company account doubled down on his messaging. I think dems suck too, but both sides are not the same. What kind of Swiss crack are they smoking to be able to pretend that the administration that created permanent tax cuts for the ultra wealthy, that I subsidize with my tax dollars, is a friend of the little guy? Or how about the administration that seated the court that bulldozed the right to privacy, while state courts pass censorship laws under the guise of child protections?

The guy is talking out both sides of his face and he's an asshole. While I don't think this is indicative of Proton's services per se I am no longer a paying customer.

[–] [email protected] 142 points 1 day ago (11 children)

Trouble is Andy, we now know what you privately think and all the follow up statements in the world can't put that genie back in the bottle.

Proton is an org that exists in an industry whose customers do not trust easily. Publicly aligning with someone utterly untrustable, either as an individual or as a board, has tainted Proton and adversely affected peoples ability to trust. How can we ever know when Proton will find it acceptable again to respond positively to a Trumpian decision or how it might affect our privacy?

load more comments (11 replies)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago

Yeah, I pay for Proton to try it out. I was liking it but this guy bending the knee to someone like trump is a huge red flag. I won't be renewing my subscription!

[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 day ago (2 children)

If an employee did this and there was this much backlash that said employee would be promptly fired....

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

In the US maybe, in the EU? Only if you want to get sued and then forced to re-hire them.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 84 points 1 day ago (2 children)

agreeing with Republicans on one specific issue (antitrust enforcement to protect small companies)

Where is he getting this bullshit from that republicans actually want to do antitrust lol

[–] booly 3 points 17 hours ago

By cherry picking a few Republican priorities designed to spite big tech and totally ignoring the big enforcement efforts that the Biden administration has pursued through the FTC and the DOJ Antitrust Division, in both tech and non-tech industries.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 day ago

from https://lemmy.ca/comment/13913116

Two bills were ready, with bipartisan support. Chuck Schumer (who coincidently has two daughters working as big tech lobbyists) refused to bring the bills for a vote.

At a 2024 event covering antitrust remedies, out of all the invited senators, just a single one showed up - JD Vance. 

Chuck Schumer is democrat, JD Vance is republic. Would guess opinion based on personal experience with few people.

[–] [email protected] 55 points 1 day ago (12 children)

Why does his username have "88" in binary 🧐

load more comments (12 replies)
[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 day ago

I'm still confused how he could have been dumb enough to think, let alone imply, let alone say out loud, that Republicans want to reign in big tech, when they so transparently want to capture it and make it an even worse version of itself. It's not that everything they do is a cynical power grab, it's that everything they do is a blatant cynical power grab, and being in the privacy business without having a perfectly clear understanding of that feels equivalent to not knowing what a VPN is.

His statement here is great, and I support it whole-heartedly and unabashedly. It just feels almost...I don't know, unrelated somehow? Even though ostensibly it isn't.

[–] [email protected] 72 points 1 day ago (7 children)

I'm personally satisfied with the statement, position and reflection on the issue.

It was a fuck-up to publicly respond to donaldtrump in what could be seen as an endorsement. This was acknowledged and remedied.

The no politics stance is probably unavoidable, as mentioned but they should never focus on political parties, but on defending the values, this is what is clarified and that's best. We should accept to support a bill strengthening privacy even if it may come from a political party we generally do not support. Denying our support to such a bill would not strengthen the core value we defend. And as individuals we may still criticize all other activities of such a political party if we disagree with others of their activities.

As a community, I hope we can come together, and resist the temptation of purity tests, and acknowledge that we are all fighting for the same cause, no matter our perspective on other issues. We need the support of everyone.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 19 hours ago

We should accept to support a bill strengthening privacy even if it may come from a political party we generally do not support.

Nobody on the left, afaik, rejects bills out of hand, purely because of which party promulgates it... The problem is, while the American Reich talks a lot about worker's issues, the bills they propose are just oligarch hand outs, cloaked in socialist or populist ideas. ie, The PATRIOT Act was the least patriotic bill ever put forth, but NOBODY was allowed to be unPATRIOTic and vote against it. The left, opposed it. Same with the 1993 Crime Bill, put forth by Dems... Can't be "anti-crime" now can we?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (4 children)

we are all fighting for the same cause

Catering to the "Libertarian" neo-Nazi crowd so they buy your product vs wanting to defend minorities against these sort of people is not the same cause

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 56 points 1 day ago

His main point is outright wrong though. Republicans are not better at anti-trust, they’re the big money. Thinking Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos will protect small tech companies is laughable.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (2 children)

You can tell Andy is European because he does not understand American politics.

If you say anything positive about an American politician it means you will stan them for life and support all their actions unconditionally.

Likewise if you say anything negative about an American politician it means you hate everything they stand for.

[–] booly 2 points 17 hours ago

The communication that kicked off this whole thing was saying something positive about Trump and something negative about Democrats in direct comparison, on an issue that the Democrats are actually way better on.

It's not just saying something positive about a political official or party. It's actively saying "this party is better than that party." And he was wrong on the merits of the statement.

And then amplifying the message using an official account is where it went off the rails. CEOs are allowed to have opinions as individuals. But when the official account backs up the CEO, then we can rightly be skeptical that the platform itself will be administered in a fair way.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 19 hours ago

If you say anything positive about an American politician it means you will stan them for life and support all their actions unconventionally.

There is nothing positive about the GOP, Trump, or the American Reich Wing.

load more comments
view more: next ›