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178

German school temporarily closed after mpox case reported (www.dw.com)

submitted 5 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

30 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Summary

A school in Rösrath, Germany, temporarily closed after two children from the same family tested positive for the mpox clade 1b variant.

The children, who attend a special needs school, contracted the virus from a family member who recently traveled to Africa.

All infected family members are in quarantine, and online lessons will run until Friday as a precaution.

The Robert Koch Institute confirmed the virus poses low contagion risk, requiring close physical contact for transmission. The infections are mild, and no additional cases or deaths have been reported in Germany.

top 30 comments

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 5 days ago (2 children)

This is how you handle infectious disease.

Nicely done, Germany.

[–] [email protected] 44 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Don't give them too much credit. Lots of Germans acted quite stupidly during COVID (much like in many other countries).

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Can confirm. Got weird looks when I said I got this years flue and COVID shot.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I mean it depends. If you followed STIKO recommendations that means you're either >=60 or overshared your medical status.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Nope, there are quite a few additional recommendations.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

...most of which are medical the other are based on increased risk of exposure.

So, yes, if you're working retail and got sideeye that means your colleagues aren't up to date and you should probably get the work's council involved to themselves relay the STIKO recommendation. Arguably your employer is slacking in their duty to care. If you're a dockworker, yeah you probably overshared. Did you share the specific reason you did it? "Because of grandma" can change people's attitude quite quickly.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 days ago (1 children)

"Because I don't like to catch or spread easily preventable and possibly deadly diseases."

[+] [email protected] -6 points 4 days ago (3 children)

"General paranoia" is not among the STIKO recommendations. I mean you do you but don't be surprised when others think it's a bit excessive.

[–] anomnom 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It’s the leading cause of child deaths by illness in the US now. That seems like all the reason we need.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The STIKO does not make recommendations for the US, but Germany.

[–] anomnom 1 points 3 days ago

Sure, but child deaths don’t really care about location.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Although I'm definitely too lazy to get a shot, I think it's good to get those. I don't think it's excessive, it's called modern health science.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Again, you assume that I am not covered by one of the aforementioned additional recommendations. And you asked for my reason why I got vaccinated, and that's my main reason.

Do you play lottery by any chance? Got better chances to "win" COVID or Influenza than the jackpot ever. And once I win the jackpot, I'll start worrying about adverse effects by vaccination. Because that's even less likely.

Oh, and just to reassure you: I am not vaccinated against rabies.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

When you give me a reason then I'm going to assume that that is your reason. I cannot, in fact, mind-read. You could have started with "Among other things" and my response would have been different.

I'm also not an epidemiologist so I won't argue with the risk assessment of the STIKO. You, OTOH, are doing exactly that, claiming, so far without argument or evidence, that the risk of the vaccines you took is lower than the risk of contracting the illness.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Well, no need to be an epidemiologist to do basic research. So let's get into it:

COVID-19

182,7m shots administered from start of the vaccination campaign till July 2022
120 deaths which are "possibly or likely" linked to the vaccination
1 death (if any) per 1,52m vaccinations -> 0.000000658% likelihood of dying.
Chance of Winning 4aus49: 0.0000071511%
You are more than 10x more likely to win the lottery than dying from a COVID vaccination
- That is, if any of those 120 deaths are at all directly caused by the vaccination.

Influenza

There are no known serious side effects in regard to Influenza vaccination which can be linked to the vaccine itself
However, Influenza can cause GBS. So attentunated vacinations may trigger it.
For the sake of argument, let's assume that the vaccination causes GBS at the worst rate observed of 1:100k -> 0.000001%
You are to still 7x as likely to win the lottery

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago

Influenza

There are no known serious side effects in regard to Influenza vaccination which can be linked to the vaccine itself

Now that's just wrong:

In patients with H[eart]F[ailure], influenza vaccination was associated with a reduced risk of both all-cause and cardiovascular death after extensive adjustment for confounders. Frequent vaccination and vaccination earlier in the year were associated with larger reductions in the risk of death compared with intermittent and late vaccination.

SCNR, you didn't specify adverse side effects. :P

[–] [email protected] -3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Well, no need to be an epidemiologist to do basic research. So let’s get into it:

Here's the info you're looking for.

I almost cannot believe the degree of arrogance on display here. "Don't listen to epidemiologists, have a look at my random assortment of anti-anti-vax talking points instead". You are not an expert. Don't pretend you are one just because you can destroy anti-vaxers with facts and logic, because you can dazzle people with stats. You are not an epidemiologist, and you have no idea what you're talking about.

And neither do I. But at least I don't pretend to know better than the epidemiologists. Do you seriously think your "basic research" trumps their actually learned assessments? Is the STIKO suddenly some shady cabal of anti-vaxers wanting us all dead? Do you have any actual arguments as to why their recommendations should be ignored?

Yes, if I had not gotten my three shots back then I should catch up on that. But I already have that base immunity, which, according to the STIKO, means that I shouldn't get yearly shots because I don't fall into any of the categories that they recommend them for. That's the end of it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

I almost cannot believe the degree of arrogance on display here.

Throwing stones ... glasshouses?

I argued that the risk of a vaccination is negligibly small and backed that up with data. Not that the recommendations are bogus.

This is the second time you maliciously misrepresent my points.

Edit: To expand a bit: The recommendations are the recommendations because the STIKO works on a national level. 10 Person in 1 Million dying is a gamble I might be willing to take. The STIKO might not, because they potentially "sentence" ~800 people to death.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

I argued that the risk of a vaccination is negligibly small and backed that up with data.

If it was actually negligible then the STIKO would say "everyone should still get vaccinated". But it isn't, so they don't.

10 Person in 1 Million dying is a gamble I might be willing to take.

You mean you personally prefer to take the risk, and that's fine, as said: You do you. But the chances don't differ on a national vs. personal level, it's still the same numbers.

Consider this: You also have a very low chance to get infected in the first place, (incidence and thus infection rates in Germany rates are very low), and on top of that the chance for the infection to be deadly or even dangerous is very low (because you (presumably) have base immunity). Those two chances combined are lower than that of getting the vaccination having nasty side effects which is why it's not recommended to vaccinate if you're not in a particular risk group, increasing the one, the other, or both chances.

Winning the lottery has a certain chance, getting struck by lighting has a certain chance, the chance of the same person first winning the lottery and then getting hit by lightning is smaller than either of those. And that chance is lower than catching bad side effects from the vaccine. Otherwise, as said, the STIKO would still recommend it for the general population.

The STIKO might not, because they potentially “sentence” ~800 people to death.

The STIKO recommends whatever has the lowest number of people dying. During the pandemic, that was people getting vaccinated, now, it's not (as long as you have base immunity). The amount of people dying because they followed STIKO recommendations will never be zero but, assuming the STIKO is doing its job, always be lower than those not following it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

yo, why are you fucking lying about the STIKO recommendations?

the link you yourself provided says to definitely get the vaccine, in no uncertain terms:

Für Personen im Alter ≥ 18 Jahre und Schwangere ohne Grunderkrankung ist aus Sicht der STIKO eine Basisimmunität weiterhin für einen Schutz vor schweren COVID-19-Verläufen ausreichend. Wichtig für die Basisimmunität ist, dass das Immunsystem dreimal Kontakt mit Bestandteilen des Erregers (Impfung) oder dem Erreger selbst (Infektion) hat. Mindestens einer dieser Kontakte soll durch die Impfung erfolgen. Die Kombination aus Impfung und Infektion (hybride Immunität) verleiht einen guten Schutz vor schweren Krankheitsverläufen nach SARS-CoV-2-Infektionen, der auf Basis der bisher verfügbaren Untersuchungen mindestens 12 Monate anhält.

(i'm not gonna bother translating that into english; sorry about that, but it's not worth the effort.)

the STIKO makes it ABUNDANTLY clear that you absolutely should get AT LEAST 1 vaccination for "Basisimmunität" (basic immunity).

take your outright lies elsewhere with your anti-vax bullshit.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Here's what I wrote, emphasis added:

The STIKO recommends whatever has the lowest number of people dying. During the pandemic, that was people getting vaccinated, now, it’s not (as long as you have base immunity).

If you're getting vaccinated now it's presumably a yearly fresh-up shot, not for base immunity. If that wasn't the case, if you only got your base immunity this year the reason for the side-eye was probably because you didn't get vaccinated back then.

Also, learn to read: You need three contacts with the virus or vaccine, not one. If you never got ill, you need three shots, if you only got ill once, you need two. Which, just for the record, I got (three, that is). You confuse me, someone who follows STIKO recommendations and thus medicinal best practice, with an anti-vaxer.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

that's not what I'm responding to.

here's what you actually wrote:

If it was actually negligible then the STIKO would say "everyone should still get vaccinated". But it isn't, so they don't.

which is a flat out lie.

they DO recommend everyone get at least one vaccine. and they still recommend that.

AT LEAST ONE.

you wrote the exact opposite of what you're claiming now and it's straight up disinformation.

screw that bullshit cop out you buried in parentheses halfway down AFTER, and completely disconnected from, a closed statement that is entirely false.

you can't post a false statement, then another false statement, and then add a caveat at the end that amounts to little more than "just kidding...unless?".

the STIKO recommendation also is not either/or as you frame it.

the actual recommendation is:

ALWAYS at least 1 vaccine, regardless of everything else.
at least 3 contacts with the pathogen in total, including any and all vaccines

that you falsely presented as no longer being the case. it is still the case.

on top of everything, you are the one who can't read, since you haven't even realized that I'm a different user entirely and not the one who made the side-eye comment.

to quote another user:

glasshouses --> you --> stones

[–] [email protected] -2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You're arguing semantics. During the whole conversation I assumed that you have base immunity, and thus did not mention it, just as I didn't mention various other details about the recommendations.

The point still stands: The STIKO does not recommend yearly fresh-ups for people who have base immunity. You still got a fresh-up. I didn't. Thus, I followed their recommendations, you didn't.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

this is FALSE:

The point still stands: The STIKO does not recommend yearly fresh-ups for people who have base immunity. You still got a fresh-up. I didn’t. Thus, I followed their recommendations, you didn’t.

the guidelines say protections last at least 12 months, after which you should still get a fresh-up, even if you have base immunity:

Die Kombination aus Impfung und Infektion (hybride Immunität) verleiht einen guten Schutz vor schweren Krankheitsverläufen nach SARS-CoV-2-Infektionen, der auf Basis der bisher verfügbaren Untersuchungen mindestens 12 Monate anhält.

the recommendation literally says EVERYONE, and in this case specifically "Für Personen im Alter ≥ 18 Jahre und Schwangere ohne Grunderkrankung" (the very same paragraph, right at the beginning), has protections that last about 12 months.

this is INCLUDING "Basisimmunität", which that same paragraph states lasts about 12 month.

they really shouldn't use "Basisimmunität", because it sounds like it lasts indefinitely, which is false; it lasts about 12 months, and then decreases in effectiveness.

this is apparently the part you can't read properly: the base immunity is NOT permanent.

getting a fresh-up is the recommendation.

NOT getting a fresh-up is AGAINST the recommendation.

You still got a fresh-up.

i can't believe i have to state this again, but: I AM A DIFFERENT USER.

i never said anything about getting the fresh-up.

stop spreading anti-vax biullshit, just because you can't read properly.

and especially don't go around telling other people they can't read, if you yourself are the one incapable of it.

to quote YOU:

learn to read.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

the guidelines say protections last at least 12 months,

yes.

after which you should still get a fresh-up.

No.

If they had data showing that base immunity has a drop-off, by date, effectiveness etc, that would warrant fresh-ups they would say, in very plain words, that you should get a fresh-up.

But they don't:

Deshalb empfiehlt die STIKO für besonders gefährdete Personengruppen eine jährliche Auffrischimpfung, die im Herbst verabreicht werden soll.

For endangered groups. Not the general population. They know, for sure, that it lasts at least 12 months, but they might have good reason to believe that it lasts indefinitely, that the drop-off is not worth the risk for the general population, or some such. Ask a specialist. I'm not one, but I can read, without turning to all caps. Maybe you should read the whole thing with a cooler head.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

so you admit you have no idea, and then make a definitive statement to NOT get vaccinated.

you do see the hypocrisy here, right?

and "at least" means they do not know what happens after, presumably because data is not yet available.

given that they very clearly state that getting fresh-ups does help, the reasonable assumption is to get the vaccine just in case.

not the other way around, like you did.

you are spreading misinformation, if you say not to get the vaccine, just because you assume that it has downsides.

to use your own argument: IF fresh-ups had negative effects, they would say so in plain words.

they don't do that, which shows nicely how dumb of an argument that is.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 3 days ago

so you admit you have no idea, and then make a definitive statement to NOT get vaccinated.

I admitted that I have no idea about the epidemiological details, then made a definite statement about what the STIKO said. Which I did by quoting them, verbatim.

to use your own argument: IF fresh-ups had negative effects, they would say so in plain words.

It is not the job of the STIKO to not recommend vaccinations. They either recommend or don't recommend, but they never recommend not to, that's the job of your doctor, comparing your medical state/history against counterindications.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

They could also vaccinate everyone at the school. I've had my monkey pox vaccine #gay

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago

Same. I got vaccinated last summer, after a case was reported in Sweden #bi