Could someone want oblivion or separation from God? If so, what would salvation look like for them?
this post was submitted on 21 Jun 2023
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Good question.
In my opinion, the answer is a bit complicated. I believe that God is quite literally, the ultimate good. And so, the satisfaction which each of us craves is found simply in God, who is love and goodness itself. For this reason, I don’t believe that any of us really does want oblivion or separation.
If God truly is the ultimate good, then any of us who wants to be separated from God suffers from a skewed perspective of the nature of God. We mistake God as being merciless, cruel, or apathetic, and therefore reject God. But as we do so, we don’t actually reject God, but the faulty image of God which we hold.
So I believe that ultimately, each of us will be satisfied in God, who created us to participate in loving community, and who loves us beyond measure.
What do you think?
Thank you! I absolutely agree that God is the ultimate good. Would your position be that everyone always desires the ultimate Good? I don't think I agree, given the fall and the human depravity and cruelty we see.
I think one can hold a wrong understanding of good. Maybe it's racism or hedonism or any number of other things. And they can cling to that warped good even to the rejection of the actual Good, who is God. And in that case, God ultimately says 'thy will be done' to the person and let's them separate.
Thanks for the conversation! I do believe that everyone ultimately desires the ultimate Good, because we were created for the Good, though we don’t always recognize it. I like to call sin “an ‘eye’ problem that leads to an ‘I’ problem.” The Bible has an interesting theme of sin as spiritual blindness. Sin is the failure to recognize the goodness of God, and the tendency to look for the Good in other places. This spiritual shortsightedness causes us to become selfish, seeking the Good at the cost of other’s wellbeing. But this pursuit will never lead to the Good, because the Good is self-sacrificial love.
I believe that through the work of the Holy Spirit, we can be healed of our spiritual blindness, and come to see the Goodness of God, and reject the idols which we have pursued instead. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, as I am fully known.
Personally, I hold the view that Christians experience this work of the Holy Spirit during our earthly lives, and therefore receive immediate salvation in the next life. Those who haven’t undergone that sanctifying work will have to be purified in the next life, but will ultimately be reconciled with God. For some, this may mean a long period of rejection, in which they continue to reject God (much like C.S. Lewis’ dwarves in The Last Battle). But I believe that God’s love is relentless and enduring, and that even the most bitter hearts can be redeemed.
Where can I go to escape Your Spirit? Where can I flee from Your presence? If I go up to heaven, You are there; if I make my bed in Sheol, You are there.
Nice. I’m a big fan of DBH and I’m squarely universalist. Have you followed David Artman’s podcast, Grace Saves All?
I actually haven’t heard about that podcast. Thanks for sharing!