That was kind of the point. Trump, Putin and Netanyahu are playing everyone. Started the Gaza attack knowing Americans move on and will forget about Ukraine once Gaza is in flames and he was right. Americans don't care about Ukraine anymore, they've moved on and voted with Putin. Just waiting for the next conflict now that will distract everyone away from Gaza
this post was submitted on 20 Nov 2024
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Frankly speaking Russia and China would have a great opportunity to try to appear sane for Europe when Trump gets into office. Like offer an actual peace for the price of giving a huge middle finger to USA. Trump admin seem to be begging for us to do it anyway.
I suspect that this is a pipe-dream and they will not do that, and also for Russia their credibility is pretty much gone and I don't see any way they could restore it.
China might be able to pull it off though.
Trump: Oh no that's horrible, on an unrelated note heeeey Putin how that deal going for a Trump tower in Moscow
Trump's plan is just to force Ukraine to hand whatever the Russians have taken over to the Russians, or whatever or they stop getting aid.
The Kremlin said any peace plan proposed by a possible future Trump administration would have to reflect the reality on the ground but that Russian President Vladimir Putin remained open to talks.
The Kremlin said any peace plan proposed by a possible future Trump administration would have to reflect the reality on the ground but that Russian President Vladimir Putin remained open to talks.
So Putin's puppet will let them take what they have under control..and knowing Trump and Putin, probably more, like sanctions or stripping Ukraine of more autonomy.
Sounds better than a proxy war.
Yep if NK wants to attack SK they should do it directly instead of having their proxy invade one of SK's arms suppliers.
If US cuts funding it would be abandoning its allies in violation of the Budapest memorandum which the US signed in '94 to protect Ukraine if Russia invades, and that violation from Russia since 2014 also grants Ukraine back its nuclear program which should have been supported by allies like the US. The only language a dictator like Putin understands is violence or the threat of violence, look at the nuclear saber rattling he does frequently and how people and nations capitulate to it and the only neighbors they avoid are either nuclear armed or NATO allied.
There is no treaty that the US has with Ukraine that obligates the US to defend Ukraine. Stop spreading misinformation.
It is technically not a violation, the memorandum just gives the US and the UK "the right" to intervene, but not the obligation...
Well, if it violates the Budapest memorandum of 1994, of course Trump will change his mind. /s
That aside, it only would kick in if Russia used nuclear weapons, anyway. Link to the text. The present effort is all about trying to keep Europe safe through deterrence, and to a lesser degree supporting a democracy that's under attack.
The US may yet betray Ukraine and break its agreement under the treaty, I hope not but I don't expect anything else from Putin's #1 sycophant.
- The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and The United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.
CSCE final act, not exclusive to using nuclear weapons: https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Final_Act_of_the_Conference_on_Security_and_Cooperation_in_Europe
Yeah, Russia definitely broke their word here. I just don't see anything that says the US has to intervene.
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Unfortunately the Budapest Memorandum doesn't obligate the US to actually protect Ukraine.
Hopefully Europe can fill the gap left if Putin's puppet cuts support US support
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Give em full air support. If it causes world war 3, it causes world war 3. Fuck it. Avoiding that isn't worth letting Russia just consume its neighbors on a whim - that shit certainly won't stop with Ukraine.
if it causes ww3, it will be a lot less bloody war than what will be if russia is allowed to recover and take over next country
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Trump: Hold my beer.
Right? Before the election I had a political conversation with a coworker who leans more conservative and she was excited about Trump “making peace with Putin”. It was a serious wtf moment for me. “Peace” with Putin means pulling funding for Ukraine and letting Russia roll over it.
I had an argument on here with a supposed green party voter who "hated trump", but admired him for his sincere efforts to end wars.....
I reminded them about ending the nuclear deal with Iran and then assassinating their most idolized military commander. He just went on to admit he didn't care about a war with Iran.
There are so many "green voters" who are just trump supporters turfing as leftist on this site.
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Quick! Someone find out if trump will give a shit. Report back here with your findings.
I'm all for America funding as much as possible, but FFS Europe, the monster is ringing your doorbell.
That reads as if the EU is just sitting on its hands and doing nothing. Please keep in mind that there is significant financial support coming from the EU:
Source: https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Where the EU cannot compete with the US is in the supply of military goods. For the simple reason that these do not exist to the extent that the US has them.
Edit: I have to correct myself in a detail. The graph of course shows Europe not the EU. So it includes e.g. the UK as well. The point still stands though looking on the rest of the data.
Nice sources! Puts things in perspective for me. I really mean that.
Still doesn't change the fact that the enemy is at the gates. And has been for decades. And it ain't America's gates. Which is not to say, "Not our problem." It eventually will be our problem.
Europe has to spin up a war economy. Yesterday. We Americans have the privilege of being able to do that with two oceans buffering us. Europe has no such buffer. Once again, the filthy Russians are knocking.
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Europe ARE doing a lot. We just don't have as much of an aging stockpile of weapons as the US does. Also when turned into financial contribution you need to convert it to a percentage of GDP.
Well, turns out someone made that data available.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303450/bilateral-aid-to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp/
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Europe most certainly are doing their part.
However, that's not the real fear. The USA is going into a new presidential term, a term where the house, senate and the supreme court are going to likely side with the president on most things.
The USA can put significant pressure on European countries. If we're to believe Trump is really working in Putin's favour then, as well as stopping US aid, there's not too much stopping the US pressuring Europe from doing the same. That is my real fear. I think without US support this is hard, very hard for Europe to fill that gap. But, we certainly can still try.
To add some context to the numbers. Coming from Denmark which tops the chart, I can tell you that the top donors are getting sick and tired of big countries e.g. Germany and French providing way less resources. Bigger economies and military industries, yet the small countries of Europe donate the most. Different political situations of course. Still crazy that Germany are sort of "meh" considering their history with Russia.
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