this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2024
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Privacy

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New research reveals serious privacy flaws in the data practices of new internet connected cars in Australia. It’s yet another reason why we need urgent reform of privacy laws.

Modern cars are increasingly equipped with internet-enabled features. Your “connected car” might automatically detect an accident and call emergency services, or send a notification if a child is left in the back seat.

But connected cars are also sophisticated surveillance devices. The data they collect can create a highly revealing picture of each driver. If this data is misused, it can result in privacy and security threats.

A report published today analysed the privacy terms from 15 of the most popular new car brands that sell connected cars in Australia.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 hours ago

Sell me a dumb car.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

yep. I just with some car company would choose not to do this and advertise the fuck out of it. (looking at you Chrysler you have nothing to lose)

[–] Timecircleline 1 points 12 hours ago

They still have the Pacifica....

[–] [email protected] 19 points 21 hours ago

Bikes are great.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

I played Cyberpunk 2077 many times and in the game they have vehicle quickhacks that allow you to stop a car temporarily (emergency break), force the car to full throttle (Floor it), taking control of the car... or making the car blow up with self-destruct.

Now it's just a game and this can be excused, but at the same time I wondered how the hell could you make a car blow up? Then I realize Tesla cars can burn quite viciously, and the mechanisms of opening the door CAN be jammed. The other shit is probably going to be quite possible soon if not already. Meaning we could see high-tech murders happen by people who find weaknesses in car cybersecurity and exploit it to kill their target, and if they cannot trace where the hacker was or how it would be an unsolvable murder...

But that's only if a random ass murderer does it. It wouldn't surprise me if corporations wanted to off someone they didn't like for any reason and that person was driving one of their cars then... yeah, it doesn't take much imagination there, does it?

Maybe it's because I am an elder millenial who never owned a car, but only rented cars when I need them, The most I ever used is google maps (now Osmand... which is the superior Open source option!) to find my way. But I never felt the need for anything else other than blindspot detectors (which don't need to be connected to anything!) to help in lane changing since it makes that task easier. I listen to all my music and stuff on my phone (which is another tracking device I fucking hate) so I don't even bother with the radio.

In short. I would like my automobile to be like what automobiles were... a hunk of metal that is used to travel from point A to point B. This is coming from someone who LOVES technology and I recently took the time to buy a 6000$ desktop because I fucking wanted the most high end machine I could get and I love it. But even I have my limits.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

That's how the CIA killed reporter Michael Hastings for demonstrating american arrogance of McChrystal and his squad of butchers which led to the europeans funding the war on islam a little bit less.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 26 seconds ago

I just looked up Michael Hastings on Wikipedia and I find his 'car accident' to be a little too damn suspicious.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

it can happen easily in future moreover like wireless earbud which can be dos as they use bluetooth which was not build as security in mind , if used in hot countries they can be easily blasted which is enough to kill someone considering the shards will go in the brain . so this can easily be replicated in electronic cars as well . though these earbud manufactures had brain and have a device in earbuds but sometimes that device can also fail , i never used a e car so dont know if they have some type of device in it . but i would love to see a experiment over this

[–] [email protected] 4 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Israeli terrorism with their pager bombs is something that is already happening, but with those they had some explosive material planted. The thing you are mentioning doesn't require anything dubious to be added and they can work as is. This shit is just scary as hell.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

@Phoenicianpirate @legionguy it is quite implausible too. The battery in your earbuds will at most deform your earbuds and cause ear damage and or hearing loss.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 15 hours ago

Not just hearing loss, your sense of balance will be fucked. So it's double whammy.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Mozilla Foundation did a deep dive into this. And the results where abysmal. The only brands not completely horrifying where Renault/Dacia because they are European and only serve the European market so they have to follow GDPR.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 hours ago

I am less interested in ranking them based on what they do (because we can assume they just vacuum up everything anyway), and more in a ranking based on how easy the surveillance is to remove. Apparently for some cars the telematics module can be easily unplugged at least, losing you some non-critical functionality, but on others it may be integrated tighter.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 23 hours ago

Any company that serves European customers have to follow GDPR. Any company that breaks it can be fined by the EU. Hence why a bunch of American websites rather just block European browsers instead of changing their cookie/data retention policies.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

I mean if you're mechanically talented enough and sufficiently motivated, you could probably rip out the digital controls and replace them with mechanical analogs, getting rid of the computer entirely. Extremely difficult, but probably doable if you know what you're doing.

That aside, we shouldn't have to do that to get out of being spied on.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 hours ago

Or just disable the cell modem.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 17 hours ago

The more we electrify our cars, the less feasible this is.

Decoding and sending messages to mechanical systems over the CANBUS is one thing (still difficult, but possible), but taking control over system software is another. In the us, consumers are supposed to have the right to repair their personal vehicles, but a lot of that law was established back when you could do work on a vehicle without having access to digitally protected copyright. We might have a right to repair, but that's starting to clash against their copyrights over their IP and software controls.

And that's not even getting into their eagerness to utilize subscription models - would a court side with a consumer if they decided they wanted to circumvent DRM controls over subscription-controlled car features (a car that they own outright)? It's unclear to me that right to repair or consumer protections have been written in a way to accommodate those conflicts.... Especially when cars are subject to far higher safety regulations than computers - a manufacturer could argue that they need to prevent consumers from tampering with their software systems for their own safety.

If you still own a 'dumb' car without one of these systems, it's really not a bad idea to hold onto them for as long as possible. You can always upgrade them if you want to - some people have even replaced ICE transmissions with electric ones. But once you own one of these cars with software-controlled systems, it's far harder to strip them out. Especially once they start requiring cellular connection to operate or function (or require connections to privately-owned satellite constellations.....)

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

This is why when I get my driver's license, I'll buy a car from 2012 that has no Internet. Probably old Skoda Octavia.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Unfortunately, many of the cars transmit the surveillance data through phone carrier data lines, using an embedded SIM card. So, sadly I don't think this would help very much.

[–] explodicle 2 points 11 hours ago

If it's not helpful to the operation of the vehicle, then you can just wrap it in a Faraday cage. Oops no signal.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

I once had a conversation with AI to see what the fastest form of local transportation is, that didn't absolutely require paying any kind of insurance, like cars do. I did not expect the response at all: the AI told me horseback riding. The thing is, it's completely right, but it's something no human would ever have given as a response. Anyways, if anyone has a horse you don't want...

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 day ago (1 children)

An eBike would be faster, and way easier to maintain and store. They don't require insurance.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Horses can run between 25-30 MPH, a class 3 e-bike caps out at 28 MPH. So, they're about the same.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Also, horse is bigger/more visible to cars, and maybe could be in the street. So you may not have to wait on traffic crossings as much depending on the area.

I still choose e-bike because poo, but what a looney idea, I love it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 hours ago

Just superglue a neodymium magnet to the bottom of your bike shoe and hover it over the sensor lines in front of the stop light.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 day ago

The AI was doing that meme

“Humans have horses. Don’t ride them. Are they stupid?”

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[–] [email protected] 80 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

It's also why repair costs an arm and a leg.

It used to be a bumper was just filled with foam, so getting in a fender bender was a pretty cheap fix.

Now a bumper has upwards of $5000 in technology and sensors sitting in it, and a fender bender can often make the car considered "totaled" because the cost to repair is now more than the total resale value of the car.

Get a bike, ride a bus, fuck surveillance capitalism.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Best part is it's $5000 because they get to name their price. These sensors, headlights, etc, cost nowhere near that, but where else are you gonna go get em?

So in a few years when your new car has depreciated to somewhere around 10k and you get a massive repair bill? Well most people are scrapping it and getting another car, convenient for them....

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Opting out still seems like they're pinkie promising they won't spy on you. There's no guarantee they're not using all those sensors on your car to keep tabs on you. The only thing they can't do is sell your data without getting caught. Are there any guides to install a faraday cage on the telemetry antenna? I miss having dumb cheap vehicles.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

I think the best course of action is to find an cut the antenna or it's trace on the board (and verify). Sounds a lot easier than it is though.

edit: or also pull the modem fuse, if it has one

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I have never seen an opt-out work as it should. Operating systems just re-enable everything through system updates. Apps do it through app updates. A lot of updates seem like they're for nothing other than getting you to agree to a new more intrusive ToS. For websites, spam lists, and that sort of shit, they just create a new mailer program and opt you into that. Sure, they're not sending you the one you opted out of, but there are 500 more on the back burner. Some of the worst offenders will have dozens or even hundreds of different lists and force you to opt out of each one individually. Then of course there are the spammers who just don't even capture the opt out. Or put the opt out behind a login that you don't even have. Or serve the opt out page through an ad-click network which is blocked by your filter list, firewall, ad blocker, or DNS. There are a hundred ways they circumvent the laws and legislators are doing nothing to stop them.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 day ago (1 children)

A few years ago, when I cared little about my privacy, I would fancy buying a new car. Thanks to privacy concerns, I became proud to have my old car, which also happens to be highly repairable.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 day ago (10 children)

Even if your vehicle isn't watching you, your phone is

[–] [email protected] 3 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

You can turn off your phone at least sometimes. :) But this of course does not solve the problem.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago

The car has its own power generation though so it can do a lot more without risk of killing the battery. They can record and stream the whole time you use it.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

That's why I'll take bus, train, rideshare, carshare, plane with all the cameras and tracking over buying a new personal vehicle. Modern cars can build a personal digital profile of you, they know where you travel, they track your plate, and we found out they track your driving behaviour to screw with your insurance rates.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Also consider getting an ebike, if possible.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

In fact, I have one! And for its size (20-inch wheels and foldable) it can fit a lot!

E-bike

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