I am not convinced any significant number of people voted for Trump because they supported Palestine. Feels like a massive straw man meant to stoke divisions in the left.
this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2024
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No, they didn't, but I think a lot of people didn't vote for Harris who otherwise would have
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I have the feeling that since the vote is over, a lot fewer people are here to defend their "ron't vote for harris because palestine" stance. Like something was switched off...
I notice that some of them have pivoted to “this was completely the fault of the Democrats, the voters are blameless” messaging, which this would fall under.
Messages of urgent concern about what we need to do for the Palestinians have completely evaporated though, yes. It turns out that it began and ended with not voting for the Democrats, and now there’s nothing particular they want to say about Palestine. Good thing that was all we needed to do, huh? We really squeaked one out there, I guess, with our victory.
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Wasn't it something like 11% of Democratic primary voters that checked the box for "uncommitted" to signify that they weren't willing to vote for genocide? (Might have been 11% in one state, I'm not sure, but the 'uncommiteds' were a big enough number for MSM reporting.)
Seems to me like Dems had plenty of time and motivation to change their political stance on the issue.
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we are simultaneously a small amd pathetic minority, but also able to swing a major election on a major country. just pick one already.
I mean, honestly, I don't think people protesting Democrats because of the genocide were what caused Dems to lose. I honestly believe it was because the Dems refused to acknowledge that times are hard for non-billionaires. That being said, anyone who voted for trump thinking he'd be better is an absolute fool.
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None of them voted for Trump. You can look at the voting numbers. Trump's numbers are pretty much in line with what he got in 2020. He didn't gain votes she lost them. People stayed home.
Staying home this election was a vote for Trump. Hope they like it.
At a certain point Democrats are going to have to remember that they can't just rely on the other side being worse. If you don't sell yourself to your voters if you don't give them a reason to vote for you then you're going to keep losing. They act entitled to everyone's votes. Entitlement is a big problem when it comes to Democrats. People didn't respond to them saying it was Hillary's turn. People didn't seem to respond to them saying it was Harris's turn. Democrats don't seem to like democracy. They claim to, but when it comes time to participating democracy they're not big fans.
At a certain point Democrats are going to have to remember that they can’t just rely on the other side being worse.
If this election didn't wake them the fuck up, then nothing will. I'm not expecting anything to change though. It's going to be the same every election because they refuse to make a meaningful change.
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Why would people vote for Republican Lite, if there's the real deal? At least now we know chasing these Republican votes was foolish and that we should campaign on universal leftist points. Right? Right???
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I don't think most people who really cared about Palestine voted Trump, and I also don't think they were anywhere close to deciding the election anyway.
What's the point of this smugposting exactly?
Manufacturing concensus.
I'm just gonna keep hammering this in for a while. 81 million Democrats voted in 2020, but only 71 million this year. Trump won by 3.5 million. But hey, at least all you righteous little angels aren't "complicit in genocide", right? Think about that while you polish your halos. YOU did this.
The Dems could have forced a ceasefire. The Muslim contingent warned them months ago and polling very clear showed that a ceasefire would have likely changed the result in several critical swing states.
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But hey, at least all you righteous little angels aren’t “complicit in genocide”, right? Think about that while you polish your halos. YOU did this.
How are you sure that all the missing votes are caused by Pro-Palestinian purity non-voters?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKBJoj4XyFc
I linked this higher in this thread, but I need everyone to watch Jon Stewart's post-mortem on Harris' campaign. Like y'all are blaming EVERYTHING on pro-Palestinians, while not even acknowledging the republican-lite ads and interviews the Democrats ran coinciding with a bunch of pro-corporate consultants that joined her campaign in September. Or the fact that a segment of the population doesn't like Trump, but is also racist/sexist enough to not want a black woman as president either.
Lemmy thinks they're smarter than the MAGA crowd, but fall for neoliberal corporate sponsored propaganda instead. First it was hispanic men, then it was Gen Z, now it's Palestine supporters. Meanwhile 57% of white people as a demographic voted for Trump, and MSNBC nor Fox News has nothing to say about that.
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I mean in all fairness we did tell them that exactly this would happen. It's their open damn fault they, and the rest of us, now have to try and survive in the still-rotting corpse of democracy.
Edit, add: Their self centered, short-sighted voting choice has screwed over everybody else along with them. I'm not going to feel particularly bad about the hardships they've invited on themselves, whether through stupidity, logical fallacy, ignorance, emotional thinking, or (in the case of actual T supporters) actually believing blatantly stupid bullshit.
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I don't really buy that the "leftists sank kamala" narrative is accurate. There's just two Americas and one is bigger than the other.
I feel like the leftists not voting for Kamala would be more likely to sit home and not vote at all. Which would line up pretty well with the shitty leftist turnout.
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It's not. The Harris campaign made the decision to not break from Biden on Israel, at the cost of at least a +6 points gain. That's the fault of the campaign's calculations to ignore those voters, take them for granted, and instead run to the right with Liz Cheney and having the most lethal Military. That single policy change would have secured her the swing states needed to win the election.
I voted for Harris and told others to do the same. It's still on the campaign to earn votes to win. Blaming voters is just sowing division when we need unity and solidarity to fight against Fascism.
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Our first matchup tested a Democrat and a Republican who “both agree with Israel’s current approach to the conflict in Gaza”. In this case, the generic candidates tied 44–44. The second matchup saw the same Republican facing a Democrat supporting “an immediate ceasefire and a halt of military aid and arms sales to Israel”. Interestingly, the Democrat led 49–43, with Independents and 2020 non-voters driving the bulk of this shift.
- Split Ticket (July 2024)
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In Pennsylvania, 34% of respondents said they would be more likely to vote for the Democratic nominee if the nominee vowed to withhold weapons to Israel, compared to 7% who said they would be less likely. The rest said it would make no difference. In Arizona, 35% said they’d be more likely, while 5% would be less likely. And in Georgia, 39% said they’d be more likely, also compared to 5% who would be less likely.
- New Poll Suggests Gaza Ceasefire and Arms Embargo Would Help Dems with Swing State Voters (Full YouGov Report) (May 2024)
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- Data For Progress Poll (May 2024)
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Majorities of Democrats (67%) and Independents (55%) believe the US should either end support for Israel’s war effort or make that support conditional on a ceasefire. Only 8% of Democrats but 42% of Republicans think the US must support Israel unconditionally.
Republicans and Independents most often point to immigration as one of Biden’s top foreign policy failures. Democrats most often select the US response to the war in Gaza.
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ignores core voter issues
spends entire campaign talking about how opponent is worse
Tells entire uncommitted voter base to fuck off
"Why did the voters do this to us? Those must be 10 million russian/maga/chinese shills in disguise."
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I'm sure some of these strawman exist in a field somewhere keeping the crows away.
Democrats need to get rid of First Past The Post voting in the blue states they control. Time to admit they need help and shouldn't be going alone against the republicans
More democracy.
More chances to defeat the republicans.
More people engaged and involved in the political process.
More people voting = more votes for democrats.
More chances of republicans electing a more moderate candidate.
Electoral reform is an absolute win for the people of this country. Except for the legacy poltical parties. They will unfortunately have to compete for your vote. If they are unable to stay relevant, that's on them for becoming weak and frail using FPTP as a crutch.
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A very tiny majority of people think of Gaza in the voting booth.
A solid chunk of gen z sat out for this reason bc dumbass shit they saw on tiktok
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Question. Would Harris have done better if she had a more tough stance on Isreal? Like what votes would she have lost if she committed to ending the genicide? The Arab and Muslim coalitions at the DNC told them that the Muslim and Arab vote was at risk if the Biden administration didn't change course and that Harris would lose their support if she didn't come out with a concrete plan to end the genicide...
In my opinion it was a huge mistake to back Isreal in this election. It's not like zionest or evangelical Christians were going to vote blue anyways. Why turn your back on millions of voters in swing states for genicide. Total head scratcher of a decision. Biden nor Harris said they'd work towards a two state solution or allow the UN to enforce and demiliterize both sides. The most support I heard from either was the day before the election. Harris said she'd seek a ceasefire but that was it.
Voting is inherently transactional. The Arab and Muslim Americans told the party what they needed to do to secure their support and the party said no.
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Libs would rather cry for months about how they completely botched an election than do anything to stop a genocide.
Rashida Tlaib won 62-38 in a district that Harris lost 43-32-15 R/D/G. The idea that Libs can't win or that Libs won't stop genocide is flatly false. They exist. But they're also at the top of the AIPAC hit-list (Cori Bush and Jamal Bowmen were two other staunch anti-genocide candidates forced out during their primaries) so they have to fight for their lives in their own primaries rather than turning out the vote nationally for their candidates.
The dirty truth is that Dems can be gaslit and railroaded by a fascist white nationalist press as easily as any Republican. We saw a hard right tilt this election because we were flooded with hard right propaganda over the last two years.
Pinning the results of a tsunami of fascist media on individual voters is just blaming the victims. When your social media is owned and operated by apartheidists and gusanos why are you surprised to see voters adopt their views? Garbage In, Garbage Out.
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