this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2024
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politics

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 days ago

Statement: government in Ukraine changed in 2014.

Your response: that new government had the support of the people, therefore that statement is false

This is a non-sequitor. The government either changed or it didn't. Whether the people supported it or not doesn't fundamentally change the statement.

I'm starting to think you are a bot, someone with very low reading comprehension, or simply a malicious actor.

If you refuse to engage in this attempt to reach a set of facts we can agree on, then we will never move forward.

I could say the sky is blue and the grass is green and you would yell me I am justifying capitalism's embrace of carbon emissions and the death of the climate.

[–] [email protected] 200 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

Once you are under dictatorship, you can't vote to hold anyone accountable. Vote for Trump and you won't have a say in what happens to Gaza. Or anything else.

[–] [email protected] 118 points 2 weeks ago (70 children)

yea, but you get to brag to all the other inmates in the political prison yard that you stood up for your principles by not voting!

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 2 weeks ago

Exactly.

"In four years, you don't have to vote again. We'll have it fixed so good, you're not gonna have to vote." - Trump

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[–] [email protected] 118 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

“Gaza is not the only issue” should not be the takeaway here:

“Even on this issue [Gaza], Donald Trump and his right-wing friends are worse,” Sanders said in the six-minute video, which he posted to X. He noted that Republicans have fought to block humanitarian aid to Gaza and that Trump — who has praised Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu — has suggested Gaza would be a great site for beachfront development.

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[–] [email protected] 115 points 2 weeks ago (17 children)

Protest voting doesn't work when the candidate you are protesting is the least worst option. Democrats that will not vote out of principle have been conned as badly as MAGA republicans. End of story.

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[–] [email protected] 79 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

If you want to engage those bad faith accounts, don't respond to the Gaza thing; that's a trap. Instead, ask about other issues like climate issues, housing issues, food insecurity problems, etc. ask them what their third party candidate has planned for that and ask for evidence of these plans. They'll move goalposts and attempt to get back on Gaza. Keep them coming back to those other issues that affect Americans daily. Many of those accounts are here to derail conversation. Derail them in turn and force the conversation back on track.

Or do what I do and downvote then block, then post the occasional reminder that most of those accounts are bad faith at best.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I know. I mean I’m not a huge fan of Harris’ Gaza stance. Honestly I’m not sure why it’s political at all to call what Israel is doing wrong. But come on, Trump will be 100 times worse. And that’s just on the Israel/Gaza thing. I’m not sure how you can look at these two and decide that Harris is wrong enough about the Gaza thing that you come to the conclusion that either a third party or Trump vote is warranted. Which makes me believe is not genuine and likely foreign agent spreading chaos and misinformation.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 weeks ago (12 children)

It's because there is a large, internally-polled segment of the Pennsylvania electorate who are Jewish and sympathetic to Israel.

Harris can't afford to not court them.

I have no doubt she vehemently dislikes Bibi and would wish to cut aid.

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[–] agamemnonymous 65 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

Here come the tankies to call Bernie Sanders BlueMAGA in 3...2...

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[–] [email protected] 55 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (6 children)

Bernie is such a good guy. The Dems have done him dirty so many times, they are currently continuing to support many harmful policies but he understands what's at stake and he puts all of that aside to do the best he can.

He doesn't have to do this. He's 83 years old and while his cognitive health is outstanding for his age, someone his age doesn't need to be on this grind for us. He probably won't stop until he's forced to due to his health. I love the guy and it's a shame we weren't given the chance to see him take the presidency.

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[–] [email protected] 52 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I was a Bernie-or-Bust-er in 2016 because I was confident Hilary was going to win with or without my vote. I deeply regret taking that stance and feel like I let down every woman who's lost rights to their bodily autonomy, every family who was separated at the border, everybody whose life was lost or ruined due to the Trump administration's incompetent response to the COVID-19 outbreak, and everybody else who has been harmed by the Trump administration.

Don't be like me. It sucks having to vote for the lesser of two evils but that's how our system works and not voting or voting third-party isn't going to change that but it does run the risk of things getting a lot worse.

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[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

The fantasy world the zero-tolerance high-ground morality angels live in is as dangerous as the one MAGA lives in, and ironically has the same victims. They proudly polish their halos nice and shiny while they let the world burn.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Don't support genocide, it's as simple as that!

By the way: Voting isn't actually support. The American system is not set up in a way where votes actually add to the power of the Presidential office. On the other hand, making a deliberate choice not to act does mean supporting whatever happens without your action, which could be genocide. This means YOU HAVE TO VOTE HARRIS IN ORDER TO NOT SUPPORT GENOCIDE. The socialism angels are hypocrites.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (21 children)

there are two facts about this election

  1. there are only two outcomes—0.0% chance for a third party win
  2. both candidates have a bad stance on the genocide

so neither outcome will help with the genocide. acting like voting third party helps in any way shape or form is disingenuous at best. so what should you do?

my argument is that you should vote for the person you can hope to convince on this issue. phone calls, protests, social media, whatever means you have... which of these candidates is more likely to respond to any kind of public pressure about this?

Harris might be responsive, and let's be honest, she might not be. but you know for a fact that it's definitely not the fucking orange turd. Natenyahu wants him to win. how can you ignore that?

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[–] [email protected] 50 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

I'm not sure why people haven't been saying this more.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I have been. It tends to get downvoted by both extremes on Lemmy.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

It's a fundamentally uncomfortable position. The people of Gaza matter, and we can be pretty sure that Harris will continue current Biden Admin policies on it. You can't argue for the hundred other policies at stake without knowingly allowing genocide to happen with US approval.

But here's the thing: there are two very prominent Jewish people who don't believe for a second that both sides are the same. One of them is Bernie Sanders. The other is Benjamin Netanyahu.

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 week ago

That's a bad headline. Watch his video, he makes a much more nuanced argument.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Hey look, someone finally posted an article about this so the mods don't remove it!

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Not voting for a candidate is not the only, nor the most effective way to push a party to change positions on an issue you care about.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 week ago (11 children)

Anybody voting against Harris over Gaza is a moron. Trump may be even more pro Israel...

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (8 children)

Gaza is hardly even an issue on the ballot, you're picking between slow genocide and fast genocide.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Slow genocide is better though. We all get that right?

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 week ago (13 children)

Certainly gives us more time to try to do something about it, yeah.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 week ago

Unfortunately Gaza is a non issue. The situation would only be handled worse under the other candidate. Along with just about every other conceivable thing.

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