this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2024

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My pro-Trump family found out that I voted for Harris and now my brother is openly threatening to kill me. How do I get out ASAP? (lemmy.world)

submitted 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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I (21M) live in an Ohio household of hardcore Trumpers who, unfortunately, found out that I voted for Kamala Harris.

My father and brother are fascists. They believe in killing anyone who disagrees with Trumpism. My mother is not violent, but drank basically all the QAnon Kool-Aid and is batshit insane.

I am disabled. My cognitive ability suffers severely if I sit up or stand up for more than a few minutes. I also have another condition that requires me to avoid bending my neck, so I have to keep it straight. I also can't safely lift anything that's heavier than a few pounds, so anything more than that is very risky. I can push and pull fine.

I am also financially-dependent on my mother at the moment.

We moved to a new house recently, and the walls are very thin. That allowed me to overhear a private conversation between my father and brother.

My brother said that he hates Harris supporters so much that he wants a day of retribution where he goes on a violent rampage to kill everyone he knows who supports her, especially gay and transgender people. When my dad asked if that included me, he did not hesitate to say "Sure."

My brother is in peak physical condition. He owns guns and has military training. I had long suspected that he is the biggest potential threat to my life, but gaslighted myself into thinking I was overreacting. Today, he confirmed it.

My brother isn't the type to throw out threats of violence willy-nilly. He has also physically abused me in the past when we were younger and has major anger issues. I believe that I have to take this threat seriously, and that means that I need to evacuate ASAP. I think the most likely day for him to act is on election night or shortly after, which would give me just over a week. But then again, I can't be sure. Maybe he is planning a surprise.

My mother is too unreasonable to take any of this seriously.

I have a few thousand dollars and Democratic relatives from the South who might potentially take me in, though I don't know for sure if they will, since we're not close emotionally. I also don't know if my brother will go out of his way to target them once he notices my absence. He is going to an out-of-state Trump rally this week, so I know that he doesn't have much trouble crossing state lines.

I don't know where my birth certificate and social security card are, other than that my mother has them somewhere. My father is home the entire time and stays in one spot where he can see everything. Even if I knew where they were, there is no way for me to retrieve them without him noticing.

Fuck fascism. I was born to a family of vile abusive sociopaths. It was hell the whole time. I won't miss any of them. Fuck them. They are a disappointment to the rest of my family line. I spent my entire life learning how to become a decent human being in spite of it all and now the fuckers want me dead. FUCK. THEM.

The thing that separates me from the rest of my family is empathy. I refused to hate the people they wanted me to hate. Instead, I listened to their stories and befriended them. I care about everyone, not just straight white Christians. I voted for Harris because I wanted the best for everyone, which means preventing the installation of an authoritarian regime. And for that, I must pay the ultimate price.

I may never get to experience love or deep friendship, but no matter how this all ends, I vow to spend the rest of my days pouring out as much love and joy as I can out to every last ally I meet.

Any advice would be helpful. I don't want to wait, but I also can't do this without some kind of plan. I have no idea what the fuck I'm doing, so any input is appreciated.

Thank you.

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[–] [email protected] 154 points 2 days ago (1 children)

First, you need to know, you did NOTHING wrong. Your family is the problem, NOT YOU.

Second, when you say you are "financially-dependent on my mother at the moment." it's quite likely the other way around. If you're as disabled as you say, you should be getting disability benefits, paid to YOU, not them. Likely they were collecting before you turned 18, but at 21 those benefits are YOURS, not theirs.

Third, don't sweat the birth certificate or SSN. Those are just paper and there's a process to replace them, a process you can't start if they harm you.

GTFO. Now. While you can. Take your benefits with you, cut them off and let them hang.

[–] [email protected] 61 points 1 day ago

Absolutely agree with you, but one thing to note is the existence of what's called representative payees. OP would have likely had to sign a form for it at 21, unless they were verifiably incapacitated at the time, but a rep payee is, for an intents and purposes, the beneficiary as far as the social security department is concerned.

Which is NOT to say don't leave. It just means that OP needs to contact social security the instant they are clear of danger or being overheard.

The moment you're safe, contact the SSD and ask them to verify your status as the primary on your account. If your mother (or someone else) is not the rep payee, then you're clear. If they are, you need to ask for the paperwork to transfer your benefits back to yourself, which may involve having to go through a judge. That said, keep a record of any communications between yourself and whoever the rep payee is. Ohio is a one party consent state, meaning you are legally allowed to record your phone calls as long as one party is aware and consents, namely yourself. Text based communication is easier, though.

If you are able to contact anyone (guessing you can since you're posting this) I would suggest contacting progressive organizations in your area. Women's shelters, even if you're male, may be able to help you, or direct you to someone who can help. Gay organizations often have some resources in place for teens who have disowned. The DSA, the episcopal church, the metropolitan community Church, the United Church of Christ, any Sikh, Buddhist, and often Hindu community centers are also notorious for being home to progressive members. Sadly, they likely don't have anything in place for such a rescue mission already, but they may well be a member willing to assist.

Best option is if there's an anarchist mutual aid org near you, but that's unlikely.

I wish you all the luck and success in there.

This also ended up longer than I anticipated going in, so posting it as a full comment in and of itself, too.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

This is a long reply. I'll do it in spoiler tags for the convenience of people who don't like that.

It sounds like you already have your answers on what to do, which is the question everybody is trying to answer:

You believe you are at real risk, so you need to get out.
You can't safely access your primary ID documents, so don't (or if possible before leaving town, go the APS rout suggested by another commenter). Take any secondary ID you have with you and replace primary ID later.
This is the one you seem least sure about, but you've identified your best safe destination, at least to start. Go to your Democratic relatives, and plan next steps from there. I'll add to this and other "what" questions in a reply

There are two other ways to understand what you're asking for in this post.

The first is validation to build confidence in your decision.

You have it.

Nobody is in a better position than you are to judge the seriousness of the situation. Trust your gut and get out.

The other way of reading the question is not what to do, but how. Logistics. This is the thing that hasn't been addressed.

I am disabled. My cognitive ability suffers severely if I sit up or stand up for more than a few minutes. I also have another condition that requires me to avoid bending my neck, so I have to keep it straight.

This suggests you don't drive, and that long walks or waiting at a bus stop aren't good options for you. Since you've presumably lived with your disability for some time, I'm going to assume you have local transport options sorted out - please reply with more details (level of urban, distance and size of nearest cities if rural, details on who drives you places if applicable, social connections) if if that's wrong.

You may or may not not have much long distance travel experience. How have you made longer trips in the past, other than your parents driving?

Driving

Convincing a liberal friend to drive you to a red state within a week of the election is a tough ask - even if they are willing and have the time, they may not feel safe doing so. If they do, they're also more likely to downplay the risk from your brother. Most people who can do this are not working: retired, unemployed, or stay-at-home parents.

Unemployed friend should be your first choice here: probably happy to make the trip if you cover gas and lodging. Stay at home parent is less likely to be able to get away because of the need to handle childcare. Retired people you know are probably also connected to your parents, which make them riskier options.

There are also websites and apps for pairing strangers with and without cars going in the same direction. Usually the person with the car will want gas money from the one without. This is a riskier option for you. It may also take longer and require you to make temporary arrangements to stay somewhere locally, and even then not work out.

First, don't use Facebook for this - too easy for it to get back to your family. Use your favorite search engine or app store to find a "road trip carpooling" tool. Probably as manybas possible, if you choose this option.

With your disability, you're more vulnerable to unsympathetic or even politically hostile drivers. When they ask about your trip, don't tell them why you left. You're going to visit family you haven't seen in a while. Talk about things you've done with them in the past, and what you're looking forward to doing with them now. Don't mention things that convey their (or your) politics.

If you're paired with a MAGAt or someone who holds otherwise objectionable views, do not push back. Express indifference, or even agreement if that's what it takes. You're vulnerable both because of your disability and because they control your transportation - you don't want to be stranded at the next rest or gas stop.

Air

You will need state ID, drivers license, or passport for this. You can buy a ticket online through a site like Travelocity, Kayak, or Orbitz. That will usually be cheaper than through the airlines. Print your ticket if you feel safe doing so, otherwise you can get it at check-in at the airport.

Show up over an hour early - preferably two, I don't know how muvh your disability may slow things down. Check-in is probably at a kiosk. Then ask the first uniformed person you see for mobility assistance. With your standing issues, that will probably mean someone to push you in a wheelchair to TSA. Documentation of your disability may help here, but shouldn't be necessary.

After TSA, they'll probably send a golf cart to rake you to the gate. Once boarding is called, disability should make you eligible to board at any time. If you need to lie down to keep enough cognitive ability to recognize the right boarding call, do so, and explain to any official that tells you to sit up (but they probably won't). Ignore any passengers that say anything about it - you don't have to answer to them.

When you board, make the flight crew aware of the cognitive issues with sitting. Ask them to tell you specifically at each stop if it's time for you to exit the plane.

When you arrive, ask for mobility assistance again. There will be a taxi stand at the airport if you need that. You may not want to call ahead to your family even then, so you can make your request in person not to contact your brother and parents.

Bus

Greyhound, or Megabus. You will need state ID, drivers license, or passport for this. It will be physically challenging.

Again, you can buy tickets online. I recommend this, as they sell out. If buying and printing the ticket at home is not safe, you can still plan the trip and then buy at the terminal if there is one - but it limits your starting point options to actual terminals (not all Greyhound stops have them). The ride will be long, cramped, and you will almost certainly have to change buses at some point. Bring something to do that won't run down your phone battery, like a book or knitting.

There will be less assistance than with flying. Lying down at the station is more common, but if they're full they're more likely to make you sit up despite your disability. There will be stops where you can buy food. There won't be a taxi stand at the other end, but there will almost certainly be a local bus stop.

> I also can't safely lift anything that's heavier than a few pounds, so anything more than that is very risky. I can push and pull fine.

Do you have a rolling small suitcase you frequently use for taking things with you when you go places nearby? If so, pack what you can in that. Ignore things that can be easily replaced (personal care items, fashion clothing, etc) and plan to replace them when you get where you're going. Thrift stores are your friend. Focus on things of emotional, medical, or financial value. If there's room left, pack underwear since that can't be gotten used.

If leaving with anything would be unusual, don't. Getting you out is the most important thing. Everything else is secondary. If you go the APS route for your ID, they can help you retrieve some belongings at the same time. Otherwise, plan to figure it out later.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Great breakdown! I'd like to add train to the options. OP might be able to utilize an Amtrak train for a portion of the trip depending on the travel destination. Here's a map of their routes. Tickets can be purchased online, they offer assistance for disabilities, and they have places to lie down or eat food.

If you decide to fly OP, consider getting a pack of gum to chew on to help with pressure/popping in your ears during altitude changes of takeoff and landing.

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[–] Varyk 23 points 1 day ago (1 children)

do you have a driver's license?

you can get a running camper or even a large van in a pinch for less than a few thousand.

it's not the most comfortable thing in the world for everybody, but if you get an RV, you have a tiny independent apartment on wheels free and clear.

you have no more rent after the initial purchase, and obviously it's private so you have as much time as you need to to figure out what you're going to do next.

That's the quickest way to get your own private space and I can walk you through it(browse, visit, buy, register) and look at vehicle listings near you.

I can walk you through exactly how hygiene and all the everydays work in the vehicle you get, likely expenses and all of that per month, it's all doable and not a huge adjustment from living in a regular apartment.

birth certificate in almost every state can be replaced in 1-2 weeks for about 40 bucks or expressed in a couple days for 80 bucks, and with your birth certificate and a couple other documents like tax forms or some other identifier, you'll be able to get your SSN card replaced as well.

If you have any other specific practical questions, please send them over here. I've replaced many documents before, I've lived in an RV, I've been traveling for a decade, and I'm thriving on the other side.

I have life experience I'm happy to share and you can take from it what you find useful.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I don't have a driver's license, I just have a state ID card. So I'll probably need someone else to help me with any vehicle stuff. Thanks for the reply.

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[–] [email protected] 57 points 1 day ago (7 children)

I really curious how they found out that you voted for Harris. Was the party dumb enough to send you a thank you letter with blue stickers or something?

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

That's my question too, do they not have a secret ballot in the US? If they do (and I'm pretty sure they do) my advice to OP is to deny who they voted for until they can get to safety, "was just joking about voting Harris" is a perfectly reasonable lie if your safety is threatened, the family would have no proof or way of finding out.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 day ago (3 children)

In the US our actual vote is secret and anonymous, so it is possible to hide who you "pull the lever" for. When you vote in the primary however, (in most states) it is recorded which party's primary you choose to vote in (but again your actual vote is secret) . This is a matter of public record (don't ask me why) and campaigns use that info to target people based on their likelihood to vote for them. So if OP chose to vote in the Dem primary, their name would be on record as having participated in that Dem primary, and the local/state/national Democratic Party probably would have sent campaign materials to their address (not like thank you notes, but more like ads for Dem candidates and causes), and their family may have deduced that they had an "outsider" amongst them. Another scenario is that OP may have just been honest with them when they asked.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 day ago (1 children)

This is a matter of public record (don't ask me why)

At least in some states it's because it's illegal to vote in more than one party's primary. Can't enforce that if you don't know who voted in which.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 day ago (5 children)

The entire scenario sounds completely fabricated. Voting in the US is completely private unless the person asks for assistance. Also the amount of detail the OP provided reads like fan fiction.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

Do you really not know who your family likely voted for, or your roommates? People like this don't need a registered ballot result to make an inference that lets them act violently; unless he'd had the foresight to play at being a Trump convert months ago, I think this story is extremely credible.

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[–] [email protected] 52 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

I don't know how things go in the USA but in my country if anyone was to threaten to kill me, like a real threat not some shit talk, I would call the police and they would deal with that. Even more so if I told them I have a disability of some sort and can't defend myself.

Also, you need to contact a social assistance office, or whatever you may have like that in your town/region/state, because you need to get away from them and be able to sustain yourself. A change that will most certainly take a lot of your energy and focus — one more reason to let the police deal with the death threat.

[–] [email protected] 64 points 1 day ago (8 children)

Unfortunately, calling police in America may put you in danger. It's one of the many, many reasons I've left. I don't think people quite understand what it does until they've lived in other, safer places.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Most police forces in the US were infiltrated by fascist white supremacists long ago. It's why even in very progressive places like Seattle, the police forces are under federal supervision for racism and so many POC are murdered all the time. It's rarely worth calling them. Mostly I only report crime for insurance purposes.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You need to come here to Australia mate.

Honestly, I feel like there are going to be a lot of refugees from the US if Trump wins

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 day ago (10 children)

Have you seen Australias immigration policy? If hes got a disability, hes probably already denied. And how many of Americas allies do you think are going to start accepting refugees from the US? They wouldn't risk the optics of it.

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[–] [email protected] 75 points 1 day ago (8 children)

The absolute state of these lunatics, november is gonna be messy for us with either candidate ugh. Call the cops, leave, start over, etc im so sorry.

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[–] [email protected] 57 points 1 day ago

Find the best person in your contacts whom you can trust and explain everything to him/her. Discuss about where you'll stay, how many others friends are there, how many people live in house (more is better). And it would be great if someone who stays with you has firearms.
Call him/her to pick you from your house and tell him/her to bring cops too.
Once they reach. Pack all important stuff like certificates, clothes, gadgets, etc.

I just hope that you were just high while writing this but if not then you gotta fight for your life and freedom.

[–] [email protected] 97 points 2 days ago (10 children)

If you're in acute danger, call the cops. A credible threat has been made. Even if they can't remove you or your brother, everything being on file might serve at the very least as a deterrent to execute his plan.

[–] [email protected] 85 points 2 days ago (6 children)

Thanks for the quick reply. I have a few concerns here:

I have no recorded evidence of the threats, so I'm not sure if the cops will take this seriously. I heard that shit loud and clear, but I didn't get an audio recording.
I have no idea how corrupt the cops in the local area are; this is a red county, although it's on the outskirts of a big city. I don't know if the cops could severely fuck me over in ways I don't know about.
I am likely to end up escalating tensions. My brother would probably see it as an attack on him (Harris supporter trying to get his guns confiscated) and make it a priority to get rid of me quicker. He isn't very smart (hence why he joined the cult) so he might think that Trump will pardon all violence he commits.

I'd love to be wrong, but my current impression of cops is that they are unreliable and involving them could really backfire. But if anyone has a thoughtful rebuttal, I'd appreciate it. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert here.

[–] [email protected] 83 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Please read Apytele's comment, you are absolutely correct that calling the police will be interpreted as a threat and make your situation even worse.

You have to get out, first.

The police have literally 0 legal obligation to protect any citizen from a crime or potential crime, what they do is investigate after the fact, or sometimes during a reported ongoing incident. (Barring traffic stops, basically)

And that's assuming they're not fellow MAGA cultists.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Idk about the US but here in europe you can call social services and if you are serious they will send someone out to get you and at least temporarily you can stay at the relatives who dont want to harm you.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

If you have an extended family member who is sympathetic, that is the best. Otherwise, look for somebody who is sympathetic and older with a spare room or something, if there's some task you can help them with, even better. Older people are likely to be more stable and better understand their own limitations.

If you have an ID you should be able to get a copy of birth cert and social security by applying for them, if your family messes with them they can get fraud charges. You'll need to file a change of address for disability etc. Try to work things out as possible.

The other thing you should do is see if some anarchist is willing to put an airtag or similar on your brother's truck to monitor him. This will mean if your brother does end up doing his murder spree he can easily be tied to the murder at the least.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I have a hard time taking some of the advice here seriously, especially around there being some kind of conspiracy where the police are right-wing and full of fascists - but let's take it at face value

Instead of law enforcement, go to a lawyer and ask them to help, stating that you feel that you cannot go to the police. Any law firm worth their salt would ensure that you are represented, or that you're represented by someone from your district that will protect you. They will also keep an eye on adequate law enforcement to ensure they actually protect you, and don't just farm you back to relatives. At the very least, they can give you enough protection to ensure that your relatives in the south can contact you and take you in if needed.