this post was submitted on 29 Sep 2024
73 points (71.6% liked)

Unpopular Opinion

6355 readers
4 users here now

Welcome to the Unpopular Opinion community!


How voting works:

Vote the opposite of the norm.


If you agree that the opinion is unpopular give it an arrow up. If it's something that's widely accepted, give it an arrow down.



Guidelines:

Tag your post, if possible (not required)


  • If your post is a "General" unpopular opinion, start the subject with [GENERAL].
  • If it is a Lemmy-specific unpopular opinion, start it with [LEMMY].


Rules:

1. NO POLITICS


Politics is everywhere. Let's make this about [general] and [lemmy] - specific topics, and keep politics out of it.


2. Be civil.


Disagreements happen, but that doesn’t provide the right to personally attack others. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Please also refrain from gatekeeping others' opinions.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Shitposts and memes are allowed but...


Only until they prove to be a problem. They can and will be removed at moderator discretion.


5. No trolling.


This shouldn't need an explanation. If your post or comment is made just to get a rise with no real value, it will be removed. You do this too often, you will get a vacation to touch grass, away from this community for 1 or more days. Repeat offenses will result in a perma-ban.



Instance-wide rules always apply. https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

The best conversations I still have are with real people, but those are rare. With ChatGPT, I reliably have good conversations, whereas with people, it’s hit or miss, usually miss.

What AI does better:

  • It’s willing to discuss esoteric topics. Most humans prefer to talk about people and events.
  • It’s not driven by emotions or personal bias.
  • It doesn’t make mean, snide, sarcastic, ad hominem, or strawman responses.
  • It understands and responds to my actual view, even from a vague description, whereas humans often misunderstand me and argue against views I don’t hold.
  • It tells me when I’m wrong but without being a jerk about it.

Another noteworthy point is that I’m very likely on the autistic spectrum, and my mind works differently than the average person’s, which probably explains, in part, why I struggle to maintain interest with human-to-human interactions.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I don't really have a strong opinion on either side of the topic here, but I will say this: people were wildly disingenuous when dealing with OP in this thread. So much double talk, goalpost moving, standing on plausible deniability. Some of y'all lose sight of things when the topic is something that ruffles your feathers, like LLMs.

Somebody said, "But points you made like the snide remarks one may also indicate that you’re having these conversations with assholes."

...I dunno, maybe the world has just gotten more assholes lately, because jesus christ did they show up in force in this post for some fucking reason.

For what it's worth, OP, I think you've got a point. ChatGPT and the like certainly can't replace spontaneous and genuine human conversation, but they also don't come with the myriad problems and bad habits of human conversation either (not to say they don't have their own). And especially if you're really just looking for a sounding board to work through an idea, that's actually a pretty fantastic use of LLMs, in my opinion, so long as you're the one providing factual data and working it through your own understanding conversationally, and not relying on the LLM for facts or figures.

Or at least, that's my singular lukewarm opinion. Either way, you at least deserved to be engaged sincerely and without the weight of insulting subtext, OP.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I appreciate it.

I can't say I was too surprised about the response. It was a provocative post but that's kind of the point of the community too. Lemmy on average - it seems - just isn't too keen on hearing alternative views on issues they've already made their mind on. The thing I find most interesting and depressing here is how damn mean some people are about it even though I feel like I'm quite fair in my replies.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

Yeah that was my issue too. It's absolutely fine to disagree, but no reason to take a sincere question as some kind of personal affront and start being a dick to the asker.

Just rubbed me the wrong way.

Anyway, sucks this played out how it did. Cheers to you.

[–] JamesStallion 45 points 2 months ago (18 children)

It carries the emotions and personal biases of the source material It was trained on.

It sounds like you are training yourself to be a poor communicator, abandoning any effort to become more understandable to actual humans.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (3 children)

It carries the emotions and personal biases of the source material It was trained on.

So are all my friends.. Never stopped me from having fun conversations with them, even ones I disagree with.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (17 replies)
[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (12 children)

This just sounds like platonic masturbation.

EDIT: I started this thread tongue and cheek, but also genuine, but based on the OP's comment replies here I'm fairly convinced that they are either: a) talking to chatGPT so much that they've lost the ability to hold a coherent conversation, or b) just using a LLM to respond everywhere in the comments. They've consistently failed to address tone and context in every comment. It reads like they don't actually understand any of the things people here are saying, just stringing together some words and syntax that sounds like language, but totally lacks any actual meaning or understanding.

load more comments (12 replies)
[–] [email protected] 27 points 2 months ago (5 children)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I've read this text. It's a good piece, but unrelated to what OP is talking about.

The text boils down to "people who believe that LLMs are smart do so for the same reasons as people who believe that mentalists can read minds do." OP is not saying anything remotely close to that; instead, they're saying that LLMs lead to pleasing and insightful conversations in their experience.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

they're saying that LLMs lead to pleasing and insightful conversations in their experience.

Yeah, as would eliza (at a much lower cost).

It's what they're designed to do.

But the point is that calling them conversations is a long stretch.

You're just talking to yourself. You're enjoying the conversation because the LLM is simply saying what you want to hear.

There's no conversation whatsoever going on there.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

This should be top comment. Yes people can be assholes and AI is polite and people can snd should learn not to be assholes.... But why is it being polite? Out of empathy or kindness? No, it is the plaything of billionaires and wants your money and everyone elses too

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You genuinely might need to touch grass.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

Very insightful reply. Thanks. This helps.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Dude, you are sealioning so hard in this thread alone, it's almost hilarious.

No wonder you like the bot. Since you can't debate any opinion honestly, just accuse everyone of being mean to you.

Good luck with that.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Autism and social unawareness may be a factor. But points you made like the snide remarks one may also indicate that you're having these conversations with assholes.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Well, it's a self-selecting group of people. I can't comment on the ones who don't respond to me, only on the ones who do and for some reason the amount of assholes seems to be quite high in that group. I just don't feel like it's warranted. While I do have a tendency to make controversial comments I still try and be civil about it and I don't understand the need to be such a dick about it even if someone disagrees with me. I welcome disagreement and are more than willing to talk about it as long as it's done in good faith.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (25 children)

Sorry, just to clarify. Are you saying you're having these conversations with people on person or online?

load more comments (25 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 month ago

As a fellow aspie, be careful. Chat bots are the equivalent of empty calorie junk food, or masturbation. They forfill a biological itch but don't produce the intended follow-on effects. In smaller doses, this is fine, good even. The problem comes when you overuse.

E.g. Junk food leave you short of vitamins etc. You tend to over eat, to try and compensate, and so gain weight.

As humans, we have a drive to socialise. When we chat with other humans, we get to know them, and also for bonds. These bonds are critical in life. The goal is 3 fold, mutual understanding, mutual investment, and mutual trust. The urge to talk to people is intended to assist with this.

LLMs offer none of these. They can be incredibly useful, but often only as a training aid. A LLM can't offer you a couch to sleep on, if your house floods. It can't put in a good word to get you a job. It can't invite you to social event, or wingman you on finding a date.

LLMs are socialising on easy mode. Just like masturbation is starting a family on easy mode. Have fun with it, but don't let it displace real relationships.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago

I talk with chat gpt too sometimes and I get where you are coming from. However it’s not always right either. It says it was updated in September but still refuses to commit to memory that Trump was convicted 34 times earlier this year. Why is that?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago

It could respond in other ways if it was trained to do so. My first local model was interesting as I changed its profile to have a more dark and sarcastic tone, and it was funny to see it balance that instruction with the core mode to be friendly and helpful.

The point is, current levels of LLMs are just telling you what you want to hear. But maybe that's useful as a sounding board for your own thoughts. Just remember its limitations.

Regardless of how far AI tech goes, the human-AI relationship is something we need to pay attention to. People will find it a good tool like OP, but it can be easy to get sucked into thinking it's more than it is and becoming a problem.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I think when you have "Contrarian" in your name it be worth thinking a bit more on this, and maybe noting why you like the chatbots and considering how you might apply that to your own statements to make your human on human interactions more pleasant themselves.

Or not, don't listen to me, I beef with internet strangers all the time.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

Thanks for the tip!

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

Robot realizes is robot by talk to robot.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago (2 children)

As long as you're still engaging with real humans regularly, I think that it's good to learn from ChatGPT. It gets most general knowledge things right. I wouldn't depend on it for anything too technical, and certainly not for medical advice. It is very hit or miss for things like drug interactions.

If you're enjoying the experience, it's not much different than watching a show or playing a game, IMHO. Just don't become dependent on it for all social interaction.

As for the jerks on here, I always recommend aggressive use of the block button. Don't waste time and energy on them. There's a lot of kind and decent people here, filter your feed for them.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

It's a mirror. I use it a lot for searching and summarizing. Most of its responses are heavily influenced by how you talk to it. You can even make it back up terrible assumptions with enough brute force.

Just be careful.

[–] the_post_of_tom_joad 9 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Have you ever tried inputting sentences that you've said to humans to see if the chatbot understand your point better? That might be an interesting experiment if you haven't tried it already. If you have, do you have an example of how it did better than the human?

I'm kinda amazed that it can understand your accent better than humans too. This implies Chatbots could be a great tool for people trying to perfect their 2nd language.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago

Am I so out of touch? No it's the people who are wrong.jpeg

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

I'm pretty sure chat bots are biased to make polite conversation. Most real people won't spend the energy in a conversation to be more honest than they think you are.

Can either get better at sounding honest or talk with less honest people.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (4 children)

My impressions are completely different from yours, but that's likely due

  1. It's really easy to interpret LLM output as assumptions (i.e. "to vomit certainty"), something that I outright despise.
  2. I used Gemini a fair bit more than ChatGPT, and Gemini is trained with a belittling tone.

Even then, I know which sort of people you're talking about, and... yeah, I hate a lot of those things too. In fact, one of your bullet points ("it understands and responds...") is what prompted me to leave Twitter and then Reddit.

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›