Stop innovating and you die. Nothing to see here.
this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2024
176 points (98.9% liked)
World News
38529 readers
2012 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News [email protected]
Politics [email protected]
World Politics [email protected]
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
The last innovation I heard about from BMW was subscription based heated seats.
I heard the steering wheel is also subscription
They tried making subscription turn signals but nobody bought them. /s
HAH! 😂
I don't even think it's a question of innovation, more just perceived reliability. A large part of the reason Mercedes and other German brands were considered high quality was that they were more reliable than a lot of other brands on the market, while being good to drive. That isn't really the case anymore, and Toyota and Honda have that basically cornered that market to the point that it's an outlier to fine one that isn't reliable.
A large part of the reason Mercedes and other German brands were considered high quality was that they were more reliable than a lot of other brands on the market, while being good to drive.
"Good to drive" is a bit of an understatement. German cars have enjoyed car enthusiasts' favor for decades, despite often mediocre reliability, specifically because they were great to drive. There are multiple dimensions to that, ranging from the safety advantage (and fun) afforded by giving the driver a good feel for what's going on between the tires and the road surface, to an excellent balance of responsiveness and comfort from well-designed suspension. VW even ran an ad campaign around it: Fahrvergnügen
Japanese and American cars generally could not compete in this area.
However, those same German cars also became famous for developing endless little problems over the course of ownership, from annoying rattles to failing parts that were either expensive to buy or difficult to reach (and therefore expensive to replace).
If there was a time when German cars were known for above average reliability, I think it must have preceded the more recent generations. Maybe back before Japan had started investing in this area?
Sounds about right. Most of the Japanese manufacturers have had to put a higher amount of effort on reliability, in large part due to Toyota's amazingly strenuous testing of reliability before they even consider dropping a new product on the market. As a bit of a bonus to that, once reliability was upped, making more sporty cars could be achieved because you had the budget to change around the driving dynamics of a car without making it inherently unreliable. The Miata is probably the best example of this, as while each generations drivetrain usually isn't too special (outside of being high revving), it manages to handle well and be reliable while doing so.
Yeah - I never would buy a German car again in my life. Had a VW Jetta that died at only 130k miles. I’ve watched friends with BMWs get stuck with $4k repair bills with only 40k miles. The only reason they sell these days is because of this perception that they’re “luxurious.”
Mercedes and BMW were never known for reliability. They were known for combining luxury and a great driving experience, which couldn't be had from any other car company, even Porsche (which was only about driving not luxury until recently) or Cadillac (only luxury and not driving until recently). German engineering has been famous for poor reliability since at least the early 80s.
That sounds about right. I’m 30+ and I’ve only ever known BMW and Mercedes as unreliable rich people cars. I’m from a lower income town where most people drive more sensible compact Japanese cars. Also American models, but those were always considered less desirable long term. These days you do see a lot of shitty large pick up trucks from the more “affluent families” sadly.
You have no understanding of any market outside your own little bubble, and looking at your past comments really enjoy speaking from that vast void of Dunning-Kruger. It’s really pathetic.
What are you going on about? What specifically about my post makes you think I have no understanding of the German car market? I mean, I've only owned multiple BMWs, a Mercedes, and an Audi. I've driven Porsches on the racetrack and VWs on the autobahn. My parents and friends' parents had BMWs and Mercedes when I was a kid. I'm definitely no expert on the overall car market or even the German car market, but I've been a car enthusiast since I was a kid in the early 80s and have a decent understanding of the basics.
As a (multiple) Toyota owner for 25 years, I can attest to their quality, nothing has ever… ever, failed on me, and I still see my old 2003 Corolla on the road (friend)
No, it's stop innovating, build a monopoly, never change. The automotive industry (in Germany and the US) is just blue collar wall st. : too big to fail.
Stop talking "free markets" when the competition is taxed at 40%
Maybe selling parts of your car as subscriptions isn't a good idea. I've only read that Mercedes and BMW are doing it.
You forgot Toyota
Isn't Tesla doing it too?
Toyota is also doing this??? I hope they sink completely too
They're merely raking in slightly less massive profits compared to last year. They could probably make up for it by simply not paying out massive bonuses for higher ups, but we all know they'll cut jobs instead unless they get that sweet tax payer money. Greedy scumbags.
Living in LA, you'd think BMW was doing great. There's an obnoxious asshole in one, endangering the lives of everyone around, everywhere you go!
In Switzerland, Audi is the rich arsehole car. Where I live, they tend to have Geneva plates
I see rich arsehole cars daily. Audi, Lamborghin, Ferarri, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Porche, etc. But 9 times out of 10, when I roll my eyes about someone driving like a piece of shit, or annoyed by their obnoxious exhaust, it's a BMW
Ah I get what you mean. But by arsehole I mean speeding tailing and cutting people off.
Here BMW is more the drug dealer car lol.
And the dealers don't want to get caught because of a stupid road infraction so they drive chill haha.
That's also the case here in the Netherlands though BMW is still up there as an asshole car. Surprisingly, I have a hunch that the next one to join this club is going to be Volvo around here, they're €€€ and I keep seeing them behaving just like the BMWs/Audi's.
These German carmakers can buy a monthly subscription to me giving a fuck.
So, to condense the article:
German car industry says:
We are having a tough time! We're thinking of closing our German factories, and ending our "We don't fire people" Guarantee!
Politicians, please save us by regulating our competitors and exempting us from sales tax on new technologies!
Why?
Because our primary source of money before, was selling in China (40% to 50% of earnings), and now Chinese EVs have taken over both China and the local market! So, with our ~~shitty~~ expensive EVs, we can't compete, and, worst of all, China is buying less from us, so we are losing all that money!
Opinion:
German car industry means:
We kept selling to the most vulnerable market and pocketing innovation money, and now we got out-innovated and that market is no longer vulnerable!
Please give us tax-money and regulate our competitors away, otherwise we will make a political stink, and throw workers on the street!
...with our expensive EVs...
They can't compete on price primarily.
They wanted to keep the juicy margins of SUVs whilst being forced (whist bitching and moaning all the way) to transition to EV technology, so ended up pushing EV SUVs.
Their EVs are expensive mainly because of them targeting higher market segments instead of making an "EV for the people", all the while that was exactly what most Chinese car-makers were aiming for.
Many of their union contracts had per-car metrics. SUVs count as one car but has higher margins.
German cars never completed on price at all. They compete on quality. They can compete on quality again.
Sure, no objections there
Won't somebody please think about the car manufacturers?!?
Did not read the article, but when you sell cars that have full functionality but put the actual functions behind a paywall, this is what I'd expect.
Compete on quality, not price.
I don't think the German car industry has ever competed solely on price. Outside Germany and some European countries, German brands are luxury items. In Germany, they oscillate between bread-and-butter and above-average.
The problem is value-for-money and market fit. German car makers (used to) have the best margins in the most expensive products, luxury items sold outside of Germany. Those cars aren't built to last (like a Japanese car) nor are they fancy (like the first Tesla model).
German ICE cars are (and have always been) less reliable than Japenese cars. And more expensive. And come with very basic interior design / electronics unless you go for the luxury option.
AND NO EVs.
Who buys German cars? Show me one person who wants a VW.
- signed, a German engineer
Went from an Audi to Merc. I will likely go Japanese next but both cars were really nice I just dont think they are worth the price. I would go back to audi but they have moved to a subscription model for features so I will likely go to lexus or just a standard brand out of Japan. Definitely not American.
Yes, price is the point. Of course, a Mercedes is going to nicer than a Toyota, but is it worth its price tag?
Didn't the Volkswagen get super popular in part because it was cheap in a bad economy? It wasn't solely because of Hitler endorsing them, right?
Right. It's the "People's car". The strategy was in the name.
I read this a few days ago about BMWs having plastic engines now. I plan to avoid.
To be clear to those just reading your comment without clicking through to your reference, the engine is not plastic. The block is still metal, as are the internal parts, but there are a lot of plastic bits all over joining things together (cheaper and perhaps planned obsolescence). Too many parts on the engine being plastic obviously makes for reliability issues (as your link describes).
The "great industrial leaders" heading these companies have been protected and mollycoddled by the German State, especially at the time of the Emissions Scandal (were the only person to get convicted was a lowly Engineer), so they interiorised well the "we're too big to fail" message and proceeded to go into full-on extractive mode in the full knowledge that no matter what the German and even European taxpayer will pay for saving their mismanaged and bled dry companies.
The result is entirely what invariably happens in such situations.
Can't help but wonder what has been the impact of the support, e.g through subsidies, for automaker industry both nationally and internationally.
We keep on hearing that it's a huge industry, that it "creates" lots of jobs, that people buy cars from their own country as a form or pride, etc. I bet some of it is true but I also bet the negative impact is not communicated as clearly. Any research on the topic? I imagine it might highlight precisely how the EV transition (which in itself is also problematic due to car usage, battery recycling, etc) has been radically slow down, maybe also public transport usage, CO2 emission, etc. Anyway I'd love to read a paper on the topic.
CNBC - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
Information for CNBC:
MBFC: Left-Center - Credibility: High - Factual Reporting: Mostly Factual - United States of America
Wikipedia about this source
Media Bias Fact Check | bot supportSearch topics on Ground.News
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/06/once-the-envy-of-the-world-germanys-car-brands-are-weighing-heavily-on-its-struggling-economy.html