this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2024
45 points (95.9% liked)

Ask Lemmy

26995 readers
1503 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions

Please don't post about US Politics. If you need to do this, try [email protected]


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [email protected] or [email protected]. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email [email protected]. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

I find myself often winging it with "themself/themselves" and it seems to be like themselves is always colloquially correct when there are multiple preceding nouns you're referring to...

Otherwise if there's only one antecedent or whatever, its themself

Be gentle haha

top 25 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

I'm not sure if I understood the question correctly, but 'factoid' is the most commonly misused word that I know of. It's not a synonym for 'fact'; it actually means the exact opposite. A factoid is a misconception so widely believed that people take it as a fact. You could even say that the word 'factoid' itself has become a factoid.

Example of a factoid: The great wall of China can be seen from space. No it can't.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Might have been an idea to factoid-check that claim in a dictionary before posting because it's not really correct.

Factoid (noun)

(1) an insignificant or trivial fact.

(2) something fictitious or unsubstantiated that is presented as fact, devised especially to gain publicity and accepted because of constant repetition.

Factoids are to facts what humanoids are to humans. It does not mean the "exact opposite" at all.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The second definition in your quote confirms that factoid can mean a widely-accepted false fact.

(2) something fictitious or unsubstantiated that is presented as fact, devised especially to gain publicity and accepted because of constant repetition.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

From here:

On occasion, a writer will coin a fine neologism that spreads quickly but then changes meaning. “Factoid” was a term created by Norman Mailer in 1973 for a piece of information that becomes accepted as a fact even though it’s not actually true, or an invented fact believed to be true because it appears in print. Mailer wrote in Marilyn, “Factoids…that is, facts which have no existence before appearing in a magazine or newspaper, creations which are not so much lies as a product to manipulate emotion in the Silent Majority.” Of late, factoid has come to mean a small or trivial fact that makes it a contronym (also called a Janus word) in that it means both one thing and its opposite, such as “cleve” (to cling or to split), “sanction” (to permit or to punish) or “citation” (commendation or a summons to appear in court). So factoid has become a victim of novelist C.S. Lewis’s term “verbicide,” the willful distortion or deprecation of a word’s original meaning.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

The obvious rejoinder: if Norman Mailer wanted his neologism to keep the meaning he intended for it, he should have been more careful about etymology. The "oid" suffix makes the new definition more logical than his own one.

Counter-example: "homophobe", which is illogical but has stuck anyway because it's succinct.

Interesting points otherwise.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

It's the original meaning of the word, coined by Norman Mailer in 1973.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

I had no idea. Thanks!

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

That's just US vs British English. The US version being slightly more straightforward as is often the case.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

Lol. Gets murkier when you’re in neither of those places and use a combo of both. I’ll stick with “closer” for now

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Note vs notate. The verb form of note is note. Notate is a back-formation of notation. It refers to writing non-linguistic transcription, like musical notation or dance choreography.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I've seen a few people prescribing "themselves" even for the singular, and interestingly enough Wiktionary mentions that "themself" is sometimes proscribed. Based on that I'd argue that the linguistic community didn't "settle down" on the rules of when to use one or another.

That said, personally, I use it like you do: -self in the singular, -selves in the plural. Same deal with [our|your]+[self|selves].

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I don't care if it's not correct - I use "theirself" and "theirselves." It jibes with "yourself," "myself," and "herself."

"Himself" is a frustrating outlier, but I do know at least one person who says "hisself," and that's enough precedent for me.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Weird - I never noticed that the third person reflexive forms typically use the main case (him/them) as a basis, while the others use the possessive (my/thy/your/our). No idea on why this difference.

That said "hisself", "theirself" and "theirselves" don't sound bad to my ears.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

It also doesn't help that the third person feminine is ambiguous. There's often no distinction between the accusative "her" and the possessive "her" (except when the pronoun appears in a different part of the sentence and becomes "hers" - fuck I hate English), so it could be interpreted as fitting either rule.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

The correct pronunciation of the word often has a silent T. The only reason the T sound remains the the dictionary is due to common use.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

I pronounce it both ways. Huh. Did not know that about myself.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

But there's no "correct" pronunciation of any word. Languages change organically.

AIUI, the spoken /t/ in "often" gradually disappeared over the centuries but has more recently made a comeback due to the prevalence of text communication in modern life. And perhaps also due to so many non-native English speakers, who tend to pronounce letters when they see them.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

Utilize. So many people misuse it that I should probably accept that the definition has changed. Instead of thinking they are a bit dumb.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

Trait is/can be pronounced as 'tray'.

[–] prayer 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I love trying to incorporate different constructions I find in the Yale Grammatical Diversity Program. Currently working on "for to" constructions. My goal is just to understand how people perceive language, and this is a great resource. It isn't a collection of "wrong" ways to say things, just how a minority of people say things.

The most popular example I can think of is the song "Horse with no Name" in the chorus.

I've been through the desert on a horse with no name
It felt good to be out of the rain
In the desert you can't remember your name
'Cause there ain't no one for to give you no pain

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

This this

Does it always get a comma? Is it even proper English?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

There's no such thing as "correct" grammar. Different ways of speaking (or writing/typing) can certainly make people view you differently. For instance you might be seen as more or less smart or educated or affluent depending on your way of speaking. But that's pretty much just stereotypes.

I watched part of an MIT OpenCourseware course on linguistics once. (Very good and recommended, despite the fact that I haven't finished it.) At one point the professor told the students that "we'll speak no more about prescriptive linguistics except to mock it."

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

People used to say “proven.” Like, it’s been proven. But now they say it’s been proved. When did this change?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

Acc. to Merriam-Webster it's the opposite - "proved" used to be 4x more frequent than "proven" 50~60y ago, but nowadays they're equally common in all contexts.

In a more recent context, however, it's possible that this tendency is being reverted because "proven" is being treated as a participle (even if proscribed), and the distinction between participle and simple past is slowly going away. So it's possible that you're noticing a small part of a bigger shift here. (I'm just conjecturing though, this might be wrong; take it with a grain of salt.)