this post was submitted on 27 Aug 2024
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Not so friendly reminder that musk specifically came up with, and pushed, for hyperloop knowing that it would never be made, as an effort to stop the development of highspeed rail in America and shift all political discussions of it because "something better is around the corner":

As I’ve written in my book, Musk admitted to his biographer Ashlee Vance that Hyperloop was all about trying to get legislators to cancel plans for high-speed rail in California—even though he had no plans to build it. Several years ago, Musk said that public transit was “a pain in the ass” where you were surrounded by strangers, including possible serial killers, to justify his opposition.

source: new york times

Also: 2024 update, the total length of China's high-speed rail tracks has now reached well over 45,000 km, or 28,000 miles, by the end of 2023.

They are additionally five years ahead of schedule and expect to double the total number within ten years. And, before someone inevitably complains about "how expensive it is", they are turning over a net-profit of over $600M USD a year.

Via

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[–] [email protected] 113 points 3 months ago (6 children)

To be fair, China doesn't have to deal with eminent domain.

[–] [email protected] 120 points 3 months ago (3 children)

And annoying stuff like human rights

[–] [email protected] 79 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (8 children)

On the "good on China" side, they standardized their train sets and rails to very few models for efficient and consistent systems, have the largest manufacturing base in the world, and the constant building of rail is training generations of chinese engineers how to build and run it efficiently.

The US builds rail infrequently to random specifications, generally with outsourced labor and engineering. Every single project is different, with different voltages, trainsets, tracks, on and on. Hell, we toss in diesel trains still for fun, like the Florida HSR brightline.

It's a big part why we suck at it. As an example, the east coast Amtrak line that runs through NYC/Boston/etc has like 3 different voltages. The "single line" is actually 3 lines, with one of them nearly 100 years old with constant maintenance issues. They have been trying to replace it for decades, but we never fully fund it enough to do so.

We are just doing this the stupid way possible.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 3 months ago

We suck at it because the auto lobby wants us to suck at it. We could do what China is doing if we told the auto makers to stuff it and started building

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago

The problem with the buildout of Chinese high speed rail, that the US won't really have should it start investing into it, is that China already had a very robust passenger rail system

They WAY overbuilt their high speed system, and now tons of lines are hemorrhaging money because people are opting for the slower, but significantly cheaper, traditional rail system that the high speed one has to compete against

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago

And those pesky environmental impact reports

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The US does? The black neighborhoods they destroyed to build highways would like to speak to you

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Except they can't, because their residents are mostly dead. From old age.

We don't do that anymore, for good fucking reason.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Pretty good chance they died from the consequences of poverty.

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[–] Grandwolf319 83 points 3 months ago (12 children)

I hope people realize that the issue isn’t musk but California’s reliance on the private sector to do public good.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 months ago (2 children)

California HSR is an entirely state funded project.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago (8 children)

To nitpick, does that imply that it's being both funded and constructed by government employees? Or is the funding public, but the companies that are supposed to be performing the work private? Because that's how the telco industry works, and well... we all know how that went.

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[–] Lucidlethargy 60 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Fuck Elon Musk. He's a piece of shit that has damaged the fabric of our society.

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[–] [email protected] 44 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Union Pacific's profits over the last 20 years would have paid for a high speed rail line from Chicago to Los Angeles

The existence of that entity as a private owner of critical American infrastructure, which uses it to extract rents from the American economy, has cost us at least one trans-continental high speed rail line worth of value.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The cult of musk is fucking disgusting.

It's abhorrent how much influence he has on public decisions.

[–] jaemo 15 points 3 months ago (5 children)

The man is a monster and his sycophantic followers are incapable of critical thought.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I wonder what vehicle Americans have to use because of lack of high speed rail..

Could this be to keep everyone car dependent?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I wonder if that Musk fellow has a vested interest in car sales or something. Maybe he has ties to some sort of car company. 🤔

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago

I sure hope he doesn't have a media company that spreads lies about political topics to further his own personal agenda

[–] [email protected] 32 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Go figure, a billionaire killing the competition in order to make more money.

And there’s a segment of society that thinks billionaires should essentially get dictatorial powers because they “earned it” and they have good business sense.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 3 months ago (4 children)

I feel like we can talk about how Elon and mass transit in America are the worst without making poor comparison to China.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 3 months ago (5 children)

In hindsight, CA lawmakers should have known not to trust the guy that owns a car company, when taking advice to shut down a massive public transportation project.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago

The California high speed rail project is still being built, legislators didn't shut it down. Check out the spring 2024 update.

Now it probably should be faster, but progress is being made.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I'm not even mad at Elon. He came up with a clownishly absurd idea and the media bought it. He literally described it as "an air hockey table in a vacuum tube" while laughing, and the media just went ahead and ate his ass anyway.

[–] zalgotext 21 points 3 months ago

Hyperloop was all about trying to get legislators to cancel plans for high-speed rail in California—even though he had no plans to build it.

Nah, I'm mad at Elon

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago (9 children)

California actually spent billions on a high speed rail without laying a single mile of track. I guess someone got rich from that.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 months ago (6 children)

You have to spend billions before laying track. That's true of any high speed rail. They've done a lot of groundwork and built a lot of structures, and they should be laying some track relatively soon.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago (39 children)

Yeah it's amazing how fast and cheaply you can build infrastructure when there's no labour rights and no property rights.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago (11 children)

Serious question: Aside from the obvious reasons (oil and car lobby), what is preventing the US from adopting and building high speed rail infrastructure? I would much rather take a 4 hour trip on a comfortable train than my cramp Acura.

[–] winterayars 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)

"That's communism!"

No, really.

For example, Minnesota (and to a lesser extent Wisconsin) keeps planning light rail/high speed rail projects but they keep getting killed by Republicans who take office. Why do they kill it? Mostly i don't think they say, or make some vague claims about "budget" (while providing no actual explanation or justification). However, if you listen to their base it's because they believe trains are communist and communism is bad.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)
  • Having to buy out private land owners who will take the government to court which can take years to decades to figure out
  • Having to do environmental assessment of all the land that will be impacted by the high speed rail then having to re plan the route to avoid sensitive areas and wildlife which would take years if not decades to complete
  • Having to raise taxes or shift infrastructure funding to build the rail line
  • Contracting out the work to private companies that will inevitably raise costs dramatically because it's a government project
  • Having to negotiate with state and local governments that will want (or not want) the rail line to go through their town, city and state.
  • If the route is going through a mountainous region having to build massive tunnels (not unheard of just more money and longer build time)
  • Contracting out companies to build the rail cars specifically and having them work closely and accurately with the companies building the rail lines.
  • If the rail line is going through Texas and is going to use electricity then the government will have to negotiate with the Texas electrical grid, probably demand that they do a better job of keeping it online.
  • Promoting the rail line enough so that it gets used more
  • Dealing with oil, gas, automotive, and airline lobbies along with all the secondary and tertiary companies and industries that rely on those industries that will lobby to keep it from going through.

This is all just stuff that came off the top of my head. I don't know if it is all valid or not.

Don't get me wrong I would fucking love to have a extensive, reliable high speed rail in the US I just don't think it will happen without huge push from the voters and I'm skeptical that will happen.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago

Add it I needed more reasons to hate him

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