Jewish Democratic Council of America CEO Halie Soifer
Is she credible, or is this just cope from ToI?
this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2024
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Won't cut it because every politician needs those fat, fat AIPAC dollars, and won't condition it because they'd laugh in our face, do it anyway, and then we'd have to do something and we still want those fat, fat AIPAC dollars.
Those politicians do it because they know their voter base doesn't care enough about a Genocide happening anyone but themselves.
or condition US security assistance to Israel
This is a line which without any doubt assures Harris will continue supplying the Genocide with weapons if she is elected.
You do realize it won’t be any different if her opponent is elected, right?
And his base will love him all the more for it.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/646955/disapproval-israeli-action-gaza-eases-slightly.aspx
More Americans disapprove of Israel’s military action in Gaza than approve, and their opinions of Netanyahu are also negative on balance. Republicans remain much more likely than Democrats and independents to approve of Israel’s military action and to view Netanyahu favorably, consistent with the party groups’ broader opinions of Israel and the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict. With a possible cease-fire deal and Netanyahu’s U.S. visit looming, Americans’ views of Israel and its leader could shift again in the coming weeks.
These articles aren’t exactly the most recent, but illustrate that this isn’t a problem unique to Harris or the Biden administration.
You do realize it won’t be any different if her opponent is elected, right?
Do you think it's a good policy? Can you name another area where it would be acceptable if the democrat policy was the same as the Trump policy?
No, I think it’s a horrific policy. But constant messaging that Harris is bad because she’s going to continue the Biden administration Israel policies without also pointing out that the current alternative is just as bad or worse on this exact issue might help convince some fence sitters that Trump might be a better choice.
No, I think it’s a horrific policy.
Glad we agree. So FUCK HARRIS for continuing it.
I don't think people need to add a "but Trump is worse" disclaimer when they say this because some people are too stupid to read up on policy before they vote. I see your point though, some people do be stupid.
But this isn't tax policy or student loan forgiveness, it's fucking genocide. If you don't want to "look bad" you should just not support that.
And in a political system where the people get to choose who they vote for I would agree with you.
But we do not exist within that system and we are not being given a choice on this matter.
Am I mad about it? Fuck yeah I am, I'm pissed as hell about it. But I also observe the reality of our situation right now. This isn't a situation in which voters have a say right now. The fact that that is true is a fundamental failing of our American society, but, there it is. Gaza/Israel is not an issue that the American public are being allowed to vote on at this time. We can be loud about it - and we absolutely should - but don't make the mistake of thinking this is an issue we can solve with votes during this election cycle. Harris and the DNC are riding high on the "we aren't Trump" train and they know they won't need to make further concessions to cash in on that after their huge success replacing Biden.
I don't like it any more than you do, but this isn't a problem that's about to be solved by denigrating Harris about it. I'm also not saying you should be quiet about it. But an understanding of, and a communication of, the nuance involved on our (American) end of the situation might help folks not knee jerk lash out at you.
The folks dying every day in Gaza don't give half a fuck about the nuance of the American end of the problem, and I understand that fully. But the American populace are held hostage by their ruling class and other people are being hurt because of it. Average Joe American has fuck all they can do about this issue right now. It's a non-issue electorally because neither side will make a major change to the current situation so it doesn't work as political capital for either. And there is no option C, no matter how much we beg and plead for it.
We can be loud about it - and we absolutely should
That.... that's what we're doing?
but don't make the mistake of thinking this is an issue we can solve with votes during this election cycle
Pretty sure most people understand that. Hence this whole story and the discussion. We have unfortunately learned that Harris is fine with supplying weapons that Israel will undoubtedly use to kill children, and obviously Trump would do the same with even fewer moral qualms.
I don't like it any more than you do, but this isn't a problem that's about to be solved by denigrating Harris about it.
Then how do you propose people express their dissatisfaction with this particular policy? I think denigrating someone for a decision I don't agree with is perfectly legitimate. Isn't that what freedom of speech is for?
I'm also not saying you should be quiet about it.
You may not be but it seems other people are. The person I was responding to implied that it should be coupled with an election disclaimer. I've had plenty of arguments where people basically say this is "pro Trump" or Russian messaging. There is an incredibly strong implication that we should be quiet about it and fall in line.
But an understanding of, and a communication of, the nuance involved on our (American) end of the situation might help folks not knee jerk lash out at you.
Sorry but the word "nuance" here kills me. It is not complicated, and it is not nuanced. You have effectively no choice but to vote for one of two parties. One of those parties is headed by a fascist with sights on destroying American democracy. If you don't like that you have to vote for the other party. If you don't vote it mainly helps the worse guys. That is a lot of things but it is NOT NUANCE. It is a stupid, broken system.
It's a non-issue electorally because neither side will make a major change to the current situation
It's a non issue electorally (except not exactly given the large "uncommitted" vote and the risk that people will stay home and not vote) but it is a big fucking issue actually. In real life. Where we live. Shouldn't we at least try to encourage a change of policy?
I'm sorry, I understand that you are trying to explain why people don't like this criticism and that you agree with me broadly. It also seems you don't think it's bad to talk about this. But then I don't really see what your point is? I understand how American elections work.
Alright, fair enough, point taken. You pretty much hit the nail on the head here:
I'm sorry, I understand that you are trying to explain why people don't like this criticism and that you agree with me broadly. It also seems you don't think it's bad to talk about this. But then I don't really see what your point is?
My point is, when I see people bring up this rhetoric, it's more often than not brought up by discarding all context and simply using it as a cudgel to build up Trump by bashing his competitor. I take issue with this for reasons that are hopefully obvious. Since it's become clear that you are able to read and parse information that is presented to you, you're not really the target audience for my retort.
But I absolutely will not stand for the crowd that's out bellowing about "Kamala bad! Kamala bad because Israel! Both sides bad! Don't vote! Both sides bad!" because they are rabble-rousing fools and represent a clear and present danger to the American people.
Ok cool, then yeah we agree!
Next time I will say this.
DISCLAIMER: America has a two party system. In the current political climate, both parties are supportive of Israel and voting therefore offers no way to solve this issue. Trump is also worse than Harris on this issue. Not voting only helps the republicans, and if you don't agree with their platform, the only rational electoral choice is to vote blue. While you may disagree with some policies, one has to make a pragmatic decision on election day. Voting is a chess move not a love letter. The death will continue regardless, we have no power to stop it.
Boy I sure wish American weapons weren't being used to do a genocide. It would be nice if Harris didn't want to keep doing that.
Wow you're the first person to tell me that in 10 months of Democrats complicity in Genocide. I have suddenly been enlightened.
You do realize that it doesn't matter whether Trump isn't different right?
The way to fix this is by applying enough pressure on the Democrats to fix the issue.
They already ditched Genocide Joe because his polls were astoundingly bad. (despite all the 'political experts' on here telling me the contrary)
If voters say they care about a ceasefire there will be a ceasefire.
So stop handing over your only leverage for free while the Genocide is still ongoing.