this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2024
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[–] [email protected] 124 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (9 children)

There is no paradox of tolerance. It's the social contract of tolerance. Break the social contract, receive the consequences.

Edit: I promise I understand the concept as a paradox as well. I chose to frame it the way I did because the paradox is solved by reframing the situation.

[–] [email protected] 127 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Exactly! As this image I saved years ago explains

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Now I’m curious what was cropped out of the bottom there

[–] [email protected] 41 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Given the image quality, I have saved a version which has been repeatedly recycled. I think this is the original version - at least it includes the cropped bit? I just posted it exactly as I saved it

SOURCE

https://duckduckgo.com/?hps=1&q=The+Paradox+of+Tolerance+disappears+if+you+look+at+tolerance%2C+not+as+a+moral+standard%2C+but+as+a+social+contract.&ia=images&iax=images

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago

Came back with receipts! I love it

[–] Ulvain 6 points 5 months ago

Well said! I like this framing

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

It's a paradox. Lots of paradoxes that have solutions in math, science, and philosophy are still called paradoxes. The name doesn't drop just because it's resolved. It just means that when you first approach it, it seems to defy what you know.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago

There is a paradox in limitless tolerance. Applying a social contract makes it limited, removing the paradox.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

The paradox is that tolerating intolerance leads to intolerance replacing tolerance.

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[–] [email protected] 44 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Tolerance for somebody who wants you to die because you aren’t a perfect aryan master race chad. Make it make sense.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Batman, Spider-Man, Doctor Who

refused to kill due to morals, trauma, and setting an example for what societies should be.

Didn't work. The ones they spared would constantly escape and just kill more and more people.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago

The Doctor has killed many an enemy when they've made it clear they would not change and would not stop.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Moral of the story: when in doubt, kill people, aliens, and experiments gone wrong that USED to be people.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Moral of the story: don't have entertaining villains or writers will keep thinking of ways to bring them back.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Speaking of bringing villains back, I'd like a word with whomever is in charge of beating the dead horse that is the Dalek lol

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I get it, they're a fun villain. And the fact that they can time travel makes it pretty much inevitable they'll keep coming back, no matter how much the Doctor thinks they're gone.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

they're a fun villain

I couldn't disagree more. Their voices are one of the most grating things I've ever heard (and not in a scary way, in a stressful and angering way), they look far too ridiculous and they're far too overpowered.

The Cybermen, on the other hand, always make for great episodes. As do the Weeping Angels!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

Their shrill voices are part of why I love them, as well as their eggbeater and plunger aesthetic.

I like those other two villains as well, although the Weeping Angels in particular have been used even more ridiculously than the Daleks.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 5 months ago (2 children)

You dont have to be tolerant of intollerance imho.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago
[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

In fact, you should not be.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I hate the concept of tolerance; it necessarily implies that you have a grievance against that person. If you have no grievances against someone, then it would be absurd to say that you're tolerating them. Anybody who feels that they have to TOLERATE someone just because they sport a different skin color, sexual orientation, or sexual identity is someone that I have a grievance against.

TL:DR - Nazi lives don't matter, and "tolerance" is not a virtue.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I don't quite agree with the latter part. We all have to live together in a society, meaning we all have to tolerate each other to some extent. Where that ends, however, is when the person we are tolerating is intolerant of other people. They've broken that basic social contract at that point.

Be as racist at home alone as you want (spreading it to your kids is another issue). If you want to dress up like an SS officer and march in front of the mirror, that's your business.

You take out the uniform and start goosestepping where I can see it, no. I won't tolerate that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

But that's the thing, though - living together with other people imposes no particular hardship. It's when people behave badly that there are issues. For example, your racist person. You might consider it pretty harmless that someone likes to dance to Wagner in their home while wearing an authentic SS uniform so long as they don't show that part of themselves to others... but people aren't able to cordon themselves off like that. No matter how compartmentalized you think your personality is, it leaks out around the seams. Mr. Wehraboo there would absolutely behave differently towards black people than he would towards someone who looks like a poster child for the Aryan race, and that's a fucking problem. I see no good reason why anybody should tolerate him.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (4 children)

but people aren’t able to cordon themselves off like that. No matter how compartmentalized you think your personality is, it leaks out around the seams.

Yes and no. My grandfather was never overtly bigoted about anyone that I ever heard, but that didn't stop him from joining a bunch of splitters who went off and formed their own temple when a lesbian rabbi was brought in. He never said that was why he did it- he just said that the new group practiced the conservative Judaism (not the same as politically conservative) that he grew up with. And I never thought about what that actually meant until really recently because I was just a kid at the time.

Would I have tolerated any overt bigotry from him as an adult? Absolutely not. But I honestly do not remember a hateful word coming out of that man's mouth. Even towards my brother's best friend, who is gay. I know now that he must have had bigoted thoughts about my brother's friend, but he never showed it once and he welcome that friend into his home.

I don't want people like that to exist, but there's probably always going to be people who have a bigotry against those who are different from them and the best we can do is not tolerate their doing it in public and let them take their ball and go home when they aren't getting their way.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

It harkens to the days when politics was a disagreement of “how best to help people”. Now, it’s a disagreement of whether to help people.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago

Americans are tolerant of so much shit. Sure we draw a line but how you found it is beyond me.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Is this a new Worms game? I'd play it. I used to be insane with the bazooka and nades.

[–] flambonkscious 2 points 5 months ago

Yeah, that game was rad! I hated the cartoony rubbish they moved to, but it was still fun

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago
[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago
[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

No tolerance for intolerance

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

I love all the people who try to say I have double standards when it comes to people getting ear injuries.

Its not that I have double standards, it's that none of the fascist dictator wannabes I've seen almost get their head blown off simply don't meet that standard.

[–] mindbleach 0 points 5 months ago
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