this post was submitted on 31 May 2024
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[–] [email protected] 376 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (8 children)

You do it because it makes an attacker’s life harder because now I have to find two bugs instead of one.

The entire boot chain of the phone up to the apps you run are verified successively by the component that loads it. A digital signature helps ensure that only trustworthy code ever runs. A bug must be found to bypass these checks to load malware code. For example, a bug in the image code in a web browser might cause loading of code that isn’t checked. This way the malware gets smuggled onto the phone.

This means that if you get hacked via one bug and malware is loaded, the attacker has to work harder to solve the problem of how do I convince the phone to load it again at boot because the code it’s made of isn’t going to be approved code. When you reboot, you are effectively forcing a validation that all the code you have running is authentic, which would exclude the malware. Trick me once sure, can you survive a full pat down? Probably not. It’ll get caught.

Unless I have a second bug to fool the normal code loading systems too, the malware can’t run. You have to go back and trigger the first bug again somehow, which places more strain on the attacker.

[–] [email protected] 119 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Thanks for taking the time to write that out. I found it really helpful.👍

[–] [email protected] 71 points 6 months ago (5 children)

I love to talk about computer security. I don’t get the chance often enough.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I hope you get more chances to do so; you explained the situation in a much better way than the article and convinced me to reboot my phone.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

You restart your phone because of security.

I 'restart' my phone, because it's overheated and lost its battery % to 0.

We're not the same.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Thank you, friend. You've convinced me to restart my phone.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Exactly, as you already explained in detail this is primarily for security.

GrapheneOS has a feature to set a time after which the phone reboots in case there was no unlock. So in case a bad actor gets your phone they only have that time with a running system after the first unlock. However, if you use it normally, and unlock it in regular intervals it does not auto-reboot. This is especially neat if your threat level is not "investigative journalist" or "political activist on the run", because then you can set the time to a longer interval and the phone does not reboot every night when you are asleep which also leads to the SIM card being locked and nobody being able to call you...

[–] [email protected] 15 points 6 months ago (3 children)

I remember this feature, and I wish it was a standard Android feature. It sounds like it would be trivial to implement and could be completely optional.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago (1 children)

But that only works for untrusted code escaping a sandbox, right? It does not help with malicious code embedded into legitimate seeming apps. The later vector seems easier, especially on Android, no?

[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (4 children)

I don't really consider a malicious app to be an exploit. In this case, the software is doing exactly what it was designed to do -- malicious activity. It's not being manipulated to perform unintended operations through the exploitation of a software bug. Code signing and secure boot are not effective in the face of intentionally shipping malicious code to end users. It's designed to frustrate actual hackers.

For malicious-by-design apps, we rely on a central app store that hopefully reduces the number of bad apps in circulation. If you publish malware, eventually you get caught and we know who you are. Sandboxing with a permissions system helps prevent apps from performing actions contrary to the user's interests. E.g. why is my flashlight app asking for my contacts when I pressed 'change color?'

If you directly exploit your way in, it's harder to know who did this and why because you didn't go through any central vetting or accountability system, and you're not so easily bound by the permissions system. It depends on what your bad guy's goals are, what they want, whom they're targeting. Force your way in the back entrance, crawl through an open window (like a weak security setting), or lie your way in the front door (trojan)? It depends.

None of it is perfect, but I'm sure OS design experts would love to hear about better solutions if any exist.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I miss my BlackBerry and it's scheduled reboot option

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Pixels with grapheneos can reboot automatically after a number of hours with the screen off (unattended because you are sleeping). But this would also interfere with Whatsapp backup, which happens overnight.

[–] Strepto 6 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Samsung phones also have a reboot schedule option

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[–] [email protected] 111 points 6 months ago (13 children)

Jokes on them, my S22 Ultra restarts in it's own. Even when I don't want it to.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 6 months ago

It’s a feature! Device Failed Successfully.

[–] ElderWendigo 8 points 6 months ago

This is gonna sound odd, but have you cleaned out the USB port lately? Weird stuff happens when pocket lint collects in there. I thought mine had a dead port until I picked out (with a non-conductive toothpick) the lint I didn't realize had accumulated.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea 7 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Sounds like my wife's old Samsung phone as well... I'm sensing a common theme...

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[–] [email protected] 68 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (6 children)

TL;DR:
Restarting your phone once a week can help improve performance and security.

  • this is the same for routers and it's commonly known as a power refresh
[–] [email protected] 24 points 6 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 24 points 6 months ago (2 children)

well, I mean... anything can leak memory. but yeah, enterprise/carrier grade devices are designed to be in continuous use for years and they generally do that pretty well.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea 14 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Even then, some places will reboot on a schedule when nobody should be using it.

I have some entry level "enterprise" hardware (Mikrotik router and Ubiquiti access point) and I auto-reboot mine weekly. In addition to maintaining performance and minor security wins, it also helps ensure everything csn survive a reboot (e.g. all configurations have persisted to disk).

It's good practice. Some people brag about continuous uptime, I see it as a liability.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago

Absolutely. Nothing scarier than rebooting the computer or router that’s been running for 10 years.

I also enjoy exercising software blue/green rotation weekly. Even if no code changes, have it roll to the alternate infra on an automated schedule. Is a great habit to get into and helps any engineer sleep better. It also results in providing very accurate downtime recovery numbers - not estimates.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It's good practice for patching purposes. You should always be maintaining stable OS versions and a memory leak or the like is fairly uncommon. I think I've seen it once in my career on a particular check point OS version.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago

If my router rebooted once a week, it would be in the trash can.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago

Restarting anything with a chip in it once and a while is good practice.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Feels like I need to reboot my iPhone daily in order to keep applications and tabs from being terminated from out of memory issues as quickly.

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 6 months ago (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago (1 children)

TIL, I use GOS and never thought to look, I just see a banner saying there's been updates and I've got "update and restart now", "schedule restart" and "I'll restart myself when ready" (or some such).

[–] [email protected] 23 points 6 months ago (3 children)

The main purpose of this is actually security. Because when the device is in BFU (before first unlock) state, it's much harder to gain access to the data (without the correct unlock credentials). During the reboot, the encryption keys are wiped from RAM, making it essentially impossible to access the device, since brute-force unlock attempts are prohibited by Weaver API, which is enforced by the Titan M2 hardware security module. You can read more about this at https://grapheneos.org/faq#encryption

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 6 months ago (2 children)

"you do need to restart your phone regularly to rid it of demons"

typo: "daemons", not "demons".

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Samsung phones have an option of scheduled autorestart; I have mine set to restart once every week at a scheduled time.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 6 months ago (1 children)

LineageOS has this option too. The whole system crashes and restarts randomly once a week /s

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago

Just once a week? They must be improving.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 6 months ago (2 children)

I remember my old phone had the option to auto reboot and I had it set to like 3am but now I don't see that option on newer phones. My previous phone didn't even have a reboot option I had to shut it down and power it back up

[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 months ago

I'm using Automate for this purpose, it's a very simple flow:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.llamalab.automate

[–] hal_5700X 13 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

For Samsung phones. Go to Settings -> Device Care -> Under Performance you will see Auto Optimization -> At the bottom of the page you will see Auto Restart -> Restart on Schedule -> Done.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Would alarms work after a restart if I don't unlock ot first?

[–] Strepto 7 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I've tested this and they do still work

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 6 months ago

I use Tasker automation that reminds me to reboot after my phone has been up for awhile. I don't think I'd like an auto reboot feature. I don't even like it when I can't postpone a software update until a time convenient for me.

[–] hal_5700X 15 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Wait...the NSA did something good. WTF.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 months ago

Coming from the 9000 series, I am wondering what do you like about the 5700 series HAL?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 months ago (3 children)

My iPhone 13 mini‘s battery is so small that I involuntarily restart it at least once every two weeks

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I'm doubtful. I wanna hear more from security experts.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago

iphones just do weird shit after a while so that you can't go on without a restart. truly smart

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