this post was submitted on 31 Jul 2023
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Fediverse

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A community to talk about the Fediverse and all it's related services using ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, KBin, etc).

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Whether you are a Reddit refugee (I am one) or just randomly stumbled upon Lemmy and decided to join lemmy.world, welcome to the Fediverse.

If you have been here for long enough and settled in and now finally feel comfortable with Lemmy, I highly advice you to move to smaller instances. I just newly left Lemmy.world to join Lemm.ee.

We need to capitalize on the decentralized nature of the Fediverse and Lemmy instead of having everyone joining one instance. This will benefit the admins of Lemmy.world a lot as they would not have to deal with such a high amount of users. It also leaves room for new users to join and have a good experience rather than an experience filled with server outages where they will give up on Lemmy.

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago

There are these instance migration tools you can use to get things over to your new account.

GUI: https://github.com/CMahaff/lasim

CLI: https://github.com/wescode/lemmy_migrate

Sauce: https://lemmy.eus/post/198402

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Users concentrating on large servers benefits all the servers where content lives by reducing the number of connections they have to make to update data. Large user servers also act as a cache for the content, reducing storage duplication. Finally, large user servers improve the UX for the Fediverse’s biggest weakness: figuring out how to get your instance to talk to a community on another instance.

Meanwhile, the current situation is helping the developers refactor the software to scale to actual large user bases - the tens of thousands of users on Lemmy.world do not constitute a “large” user base by any internet-scale metric. It also concentrates the DDOS jerks on a target with the skills and resources to fight back. Finally, small servers going offline are a substantial burden on the instances that remain.

Big, robust, secure instances for users, smaller distributed instances with limited direct access for communities. That’s the real practical architecture for Lemmy.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It would still be better to have multiple "large" servers, instead of only one or two, which is currently the case. I really don't think that it is a good thing to have a big difference between the biggest and the next biggest servers, as it effectively centralizes the content around the biggest instance.

I however agree that it doesn't make sense to have tons of tiny instances.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I keep saying that the US needs to have its own big instance (or several) to host all those communities about US cities and sports teams that nobody else needs to care about, as well as potentially a good chunk of users and to exist as a large server alternative to lw.

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[–] falseteefs 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It is a good point but are people really joining lemmy.world en mass still and if so why don't the admins close registrations?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

That is a good point. Currently things have stabilized. But you never know what might cause another mass migration to Lemmy in the future, which will lead to every new account joining Lemmy.world.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Everyone is welcome to join my small instance at endlesstalk.org. I have also setup the same alternative UI's as lemmy.world, if that rocks your boat!.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thank you for sharing this! It seems that you are the only admin of your instance, do you plan to have a back up person?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It is on my to-do list, but it would take some work to add support for multiple people to have access to everything required and I would also need a lot more documentation, than I currently have.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

That's all good, you can take your time! I was just asking because usually that's a deal breaker for potential joiners to see a one-person admin team

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

don't see the benefit tbh. software will scale, or not, if not people will leave for others

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Even decided to run my own instance! Power to the people!

Jokes aside, my server can handle 10 or so more people. So if someone is looking for a new home… waste-of.space.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

One problem I foresee with smaller instances is discovery. As we know, if someone creates a new community somewhere else, your instance will onlyrecognise it once someone searches for it.

On a large instance like lemmy.world, there's a good chance that someone else did, and you can stumble upon it by browsing /all. On a smaller instance this may not happen unless it's set up to discover and thus mirror every community everywhere.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

There's a script for instance operators to run to fix that but I don't have the link on me

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

It is the strength and the weakness of it all.

On Mastodon I did exactly this. A month later the small server closed and I had to start over from scratch.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

Just created my account on sopuli.xyz before I realised I could migrate the whole account from Lemmy.world but have had zero downtime since then so that’s a positive.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

We need to capitalize on the decentralized nature of the Fediverse and Lemmy instead of having everyone joining one instance

But honestly, social media naturally benefits from everyone being around the biggest totem pole. It means we can randomly run into people and topics and communities that we never knew we wanted to engage with.

If we decentralize, we need an already established community-web, or a very specific plan for which to find in the future. Plus, I'll be honest, between Mastodon, Lemmy and (now) Firefish, I can say that finding communities on the fediverse is annoying in all the right ways to make someone just go back to Twitter/Reddit. I can't blame people for not wanting to engage with that.

But, importantly: Most users being on a huge central instance solves that problem. Yeah it goes against "the spirit of the fediverse". But for the user, it has effectively only upsides.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

But you'll still see all content from every federated instance in your feed? It doesn't matter which one you're signed up to.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There is nearly no benefit of being on the largest instance. In fact many would benefit from a smaller instance.

[–] Anafroj 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Playing devil advocate, here : you can expect the life expectancy of bigger instances to be slightly to significantly bigger, if anything because their admins feel more responsibility due to the number of users depending on them. That argument does not hold if we're comparing using a big instance vs self-hosting, though (the life-expectancy of your self hosted instance may be smaller, but if you shut it down it means you're not interested anymore in the fediverse, so no big deal - except maybe for the holes you leave behind you). And anyway, I'm not sure better life expectancy is more important than making sure the fediverse stays decentralized.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I joined a local instance of mastodonte. I had days without being able to access my stuff, and finally recreated an account on the main mastodonte instance. So this time I directly picked a large instance.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I had similar issues, I joined a small Mastodon instance and for some reason couldn't see comments or amounts of boosts. I guess it was just misconfigured

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lemmy.world's issues at present are due to DDOS attacks, not high user count

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Thanks for making this post, I feel like it can't be repeated enough. People sit on Lemmy.world instead of creating an account somewhere else where they can literally read and comment on previous posts from Lemmy.world, and then it all gets synked when it's up again.

It's like email guys - the entire global email system doesn't stop because your company email server has technical issues.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not sure I understand. If I joined lemmy.world and subbed to stuff I like that has enough users to be interesting you're saying, unsubscribe from those and join a different one with less users? I don't know how that's supposed to work?

Or are you saying join a different sever, log in there, and then pull the content from lemmy.world? That somehow helps with the load?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Lemmy is decentralized but completely connected together. I am on lemm.ee but I can still subscribe and comment to Lemmy.world or any number of other communities. The website you type in to visit Lemmy doesn't matter. All Lemmy instances go to the same place. OP is arguing that a large centralized instance is bad which I don't think anybody can disagree with. Lemmy.world has been down like every day. Tons of stability/DDOS issues but that only affects communities/users localized on that instance. Problem is that's like half of the active Lemmy users right now.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

This goes for anyone in the fediverse, not just lemmy users. I am on kbin which may not have as much options as lemmy to migrate to, but I will also be looking out for instances that match my interests more.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What about the instances I created on Lemmy.world? Will I be able to moderate them from other instances?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I've created the communities on Lemmy.world already, can I add moderation permissions to another account on another instance or am I required to moderate Lemmy.world communities/forums on Lemmy.world?

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not an option for me yet. Especially after I found out some instances federate messages slowly. Like up to an hour late slowly.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

There isn't any significant delay in the top 10 instances: https://aftershock.lemmy.management/public/dashboards/oT7pdcoeHWccpvZCNmTpJKoGZND8ZdRO3wDWpMug?org_slug=default

The only exception is dbzer0, but I guess they are upgrading at the moment

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, right now the main thing that would get me a better experience is seeing more activity, not less.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

You see the same activity on Lemm.ee, sh.itjust.works sopuli.xyz and reddthat.com that on Lemmy.world, with the additional benefit of higher uptime (less likely to get targeted as hackers want to take down the Lemmy.world)

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I moved to a smaller instance today. One thing that I've noticed that isn't the same, is the Top All Time is showing different posts and vote counts on certain subs. I think I've noticed it only happens in the subs that I've interacted from the small instance for the first time. Or, if someone from my small instance interacted with it last week, there will be 7 days of history, but nothing beyond that. IDK if that's true or not, just what I've observed today.

I've subscribed to all the same communities as when I was on lemmy.world, but my feed seems slower and quieter.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Same here. My main account is on lemmynsfw and it’s down atm :/

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