this post was submitted on 06 Apr 2024
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Telegraph investigation reveals those on front line are being exposed to gases banned during wartime

Russian troops are carrying out a systematic campaign of illegal chemical attacks against Ukrainian soldiers, according to a Telegraph investigation.

The Telegraph spoke to a number of Ukrainian soldiers deployed in positions across the front line who detailed how their positions have been coming under near daily attacks from small drones, mainly dropping tear gas but also other chemicals.

The use of such gas, which is known as CS and commonly used by riot police, is banned during wartime under the Chemical WeaponsConvention.

Ihor, the commander of a Ukrainian reconnaissance team who is deployed near the front line city of Chasiv Yar, in Donetsk Oblast, told The Telegraph: “Nearly every position in our area of the front was getting one or two gas grenades dropped on them a day.”

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[–] [email protected] 71 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Important legal context: the origin of this Geneva ban is not only that gas weapons are atrocious, but that your foe might doesn’t know what gas has been fired and may reply to CS with gnarlier chemical weapons. The treaty also names the issue that the offending forces may, inadvertently or perfidiously, not know or mix up what gas they’re sending downrange.

This is a big fuckin’ deal in the current conflict. Russia uses a near-identical gas grenade for both CS and nerve gas, in Soviet era crates and stockpiles handled by the hard-luck HIMARS catchers in their logistics chain. If they fuck that up or a pissed off Buryat conscript wants vengeance via sabotage, a whiff of bad-boy gas on the wrong wind could make things extremely spicy.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 4 months ago

I like how colloquial this got over the course of reading.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 4 months ago (9 children)

Russia and Israel are really competing on who can do more war crimes.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (5 children)

Russia doesn't stand a chance.

Sure, they can try, but their soldiers are still asshole humans at the end of the day.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (2 children)

If they manage to occupy Ukraine they'll probably win the warcrime game but yea currently they can just torture and kill POWs and try to bomb civilians from far away. At the start of the war they were definitely winning on war crimes with the civilian mass graves.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago

I think what Russia is banking on is the rise of the global far-right, where the newly emerging far-right will remove "political correctness" from war, and also Russia is pretty infamous for information control, so they can just say "Ukronazis did it" or something like that until everyone accepts that as a hard fact.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Look, the Russians are the mike Tyson of war crimes. Even 'boxing isnt shit' guys who are serious fighters are nervous stepping into the ring with him, even in his twilight years. Russia is absolutely a warcrimer for the history books.

But kapostan is the 'Bruce Lee and Mohammed Ali did some anime shit and are somehow the same guy now, and have spikey blond hair for some fucking reason' of war crimes. They're just the best. They do nothing else. It is their whole being; they are pure uncut atrocity.

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 4 months ago (6 children)

Of course they are 😕 God, they just have no shame. How will they pay for these war crimes?

[–] [email protected] 41 points 4 months ago (2 children)

They won't. In fact, if they win, they will be rewarded by rewriting their own version of history while enjoying the land they've stolen.

The only repercussion possible is for them to lose the war. That way, they will have spent all of their resources and countless lives for nothing.

They cannot be held accountable, no matter the outcome. That's why ignoring rules works for perfectly them.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I don't understand how we can have these international laws without any enforcing. Very frustrating.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (4 children)

This is how all laws work, its just with international law, the only people shitty enough to break the big ones are the people they protect but do not bind.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 4 months ago

How will they pay for these war crimes?

Community and instance rules prevent me from answering honestly

[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 months ago (6 children)

How will they pay for these war crimes?

By having to read strongly worded statements from the west.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

Sweet, sweet, justice. 🤡

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago

That's the neat part. If you have nukes, you don't.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (2 children)

By dying in stupid but amusing ways, like ringing a doorbell on a tree and being turned into red mist?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

This sounds suspiciously stupid. Please tell me this happened.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I saw that earlier and I loved the honesty of one of the speakers: "Honestly, I would have poked it."

Because, I mean, same.

I know it'd be dumb as all fuck, but BUTTON ON TREE

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

The human compulsion to Push The Button is strong.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (5 children)

Those are only the ones who follow orders though. How can we get the people who give orders to use the gas?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

If identified, they’ll never be able to leave Russia (plus a few other countries) without being arrested and sent to The Hague. Sometimes, it takes awhile and sometimes, a war criminal is never brought to justice (see: Kissinger). But Putin and Maria Lvova-Belova already have arrests warrants out for one war crime (kidnapping Ukrainian children). Putin had to video conference into a BRICS summit because South Africa is one of the 124 countries that recognizes the International Criminal Court.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

And generally speaking; gas is less effective than the same mass/volume of bomb. Literally handicapping themselves to be dicks.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (4 children)

I imagine they are using everything they have right now, including everything in their no-no storages.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 4 months ago (3 children)

What good is the law if it is not enforced?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 months ago (1 children)

They are enforced after a war or if Russia decides to punish them. Or the UN could do something but Russia can veto.

Instead of laws, think of them as suggestions.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

It's a convention, not a law. States still have to pass laws to turn those into actually enforceable laws, called ratification (as opposed to mere signing which doesn't really mean much but moral support from the state's executive). And then it has to enforce those laws, also, not feel like breaking them.

The enforcement mechanism the international community has against states doing such things is to shitcan them. But Russia's in there anyway and nobody is going to escalate militarily over CS gas and it's not like Ukraine could counter-attack with ABC weapons if they wanted to, so... that leaves non-military escalation. Which includes sending Ukraine more weapons, of course. In a sense you should thank the Russians for giving Ukraine yet another good argument, the military efficacy of CS gas certainly doesn't cover the cost using it could incur for the Russians.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Oh so cops can use it against random climate protesters, but not in a war?

I appreciate the good will, but wtf?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Yes, because climate protestors are not going to think it's nerve gas or something and respond with their own chemical weapons attack.

It's banned in war because of the problems in war. Those problems generally do not exist in regular domestic policing.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Tear gas bath is a rite of passage for any good citizen. If the Govt tear gasses you, you're probably doing something right.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Well maybe. The gov also tear gasses every hopeful cop in the academy and everyone in boot camp. Like, on purpose in an enclosed space "so they know how to fight through it."

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