this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2023
348 points (94.8% liked)

Privacy

32130 readers
583 users here now

A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.

Some Rules

Related communities

much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Does anyone else feel as if it's over when it comes to really owning your own things?

As of now:

  • You don't have the option of having a phone with decent specs and replaceable parts
  • You have to have really good knowledge in tech to have private services that are on par with what the big companies offer
  • You have to put up with annoying compatibility issues if you install a custom ROM on your android phone
  • You cannot escape apps preventing you from using them if you root your device
  • Cars are becoming SaaS bullcrap
  • Everything is going for a subscription model in general

And now Google is attempting to implement DRM on websites. If that goes through, Firefox is going to be relegated to privacy conscious websites (there aren't many of those). At this point, why even bother? Why do I go to great lengths at protecting my privacy if it means that I can't use most services I want?

It sucks because the obvious solution is for people to move away from these bullshit companies and show that they actually care about their privacy. Even more important is to actually PAY for services they like instead of relying on free stuff. I'm not optimistic not just because the non privacy conscious side is lazy, but because my side is greedy. I mean one of the most popular communities on lemmy is "piracy" which makes it all the more reasonable for companies not to listen to privacy conscious people.

I wouldn't say that this is the endgame but in this trajectory, privacy is gone before 2030.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 82 points 1 year ago (3 children)

You will forever have these feelings, if you have a better world than the status quo in mind. Be careful to not be overwhelmed by them, if you suffer too much long term you could give up or become a cynic. Nothing is perfect, we strive to make better systems (and smartphones).

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (15 children)

“Just pretend this dystopia is a utopia and you’ll be fine!”

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Nuance status: out the window

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

Where is the soma we were promised?

load more comments (13 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It sucks because the obvious solution is for people to move away from these bullshit companies and show that they actually care about their privacy.

They don't. People don't care, don't understand, and don't care that they don't understand. The average person is oblivious of the way the world around them works, and they're okay with that. Ignorance is bliss, after all.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The truth makes for tough reading. Now for the good news: imagine all the free software you use every day, and all the people who built it with passion and countless hours of hard work, and - not least! - how much more powerful that software is than it was even a decade ago.

It seems that the ignorant masses are not entirely in the driving seat, right?

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It comes in cycles. 20 years ago, it was a struggle to maintain your digital freedom. 10 years ago, when everyone was basking in free software and low interest rates, it was quite easy. The industry is contracting again, so it's going to be harder to do so while using commercial offerings. But we will find ways and the cycle will repeat.

Persist.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What was the struggle 20 years ago?

[–] [email protected] 50 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Ughhh long story...

It was the height of the Desktop era. Everything ran locally, and that meant Windows. OS X just got started. Everyone was predicting smartphones, but they were a decade out (note time travellers: drop the fucking stylus). Linux was unbelievably shit. Very few drivers, you had to carefully pick your hardware. External devices were a luxury. Printing mostly didn't work, USB printing was bragging rights. You had to buy modems with a hardware DAC, else it was done in the driver which worked only on Windows. GTK kinda just went from v1 to v2, everything looked 10 years outdated, and even Firefox had glitchy UI on Linux. If you could insert a CD and get it to show up without manually mounting, you were staring into the future.

The Web was on hold, Microsoft having won the browsers wars pt. 1, and proceeding to stall with Internet Explorer 6, correctly predicting that browsers would compete with their hegemony in the client space. There were no services: GMail and Youtube were just getting started. You ran local programs, and there were barely any for Linux. The choice was between booting Windows and dicking with cracks from Astalavista, and booting Linux to rice your E16, then staring at it. General productivity software was almost non-existent — you had a dozen compilers and interpreters instead. Where I'm from, banking required desktop software which required windows, not to mention smart cards, which also required windows.

This was made worse by the proprietary formats, which were the key to maintaining stranglehold. Everyone was emailing .docs around, which you could sometimes open with Abiword or maybe dump just the text and Antiword. Even the PDF viewers were a bit crap. Had to submit a report? You probably booted Windows in a virtual machine to use Office, and the CPU was yet to add instructions helping with that. Media was even worse; everything was MPEG and required royalties. LAME Ain't an MP3 Encoder because it wasn't allowed to be. RIAA/MPAA were fighting hard to keep you buying physical shit. Meanwhile, you could only play Tux Racer and Nethack.

Around that time, Microsoft was about to introduce Palladium, an attestation chain rooted in hardware. Everyone was despairing about the same future: in 3-5 years, Microsoft would use it to pull in and segregate an increasing portion of the Internet, until the whole became their walled garden. Hope that sounds familiar.


Meanwhile, older penguins just didn't give a fuck. They simply didn't use the shit they couldn't use, and missed none of it. They worked to extend what they had, the digital commons.

No one could stand TVs, so as an act of disobedience, we invented p2p piracy. Napster, DC, torrents — which are alive and kicking. Xiph gave no fucks and started working on free media codecs. Vorbis became CELT became OPUS. Tarkin became Daala became (merged into) AV1. Youtube is now serving OPUS and VP9 or AV1; our best codecs trace their lineage to DIY stuff done to avoid proprietary formats. H.266 can, and will, fuck off. PDF is everywhere. Jimbo started Wikipedia. Flash went away. The modern web happened. Linux grew up and I don't even notice I'm using it. Free software ate nonfree in most domains; the gardens are now walled through access, not by being built on proprietary stacks. Massive progress happened.


Now that the digital world runs on services — which were a clever ruse to subvert old free software (Google runs on Linux, remember?) — someone is threatening to close a few pipes. So what? Just look at the fucking size of those commons that we have created. Someone will claw back some of that... and? Worst case, we lose a few ways to waste our time, of which we have hundreds. Retract from the mainstream a little, again. Have some difficulties using a few services. Be careful which hardware we buy. Oh noez.

Shit changes constantly. Companies battle relentlessly to undercut one another. We invent workarounds and grow our knowledge. Relax, get yourself LineageOS+MicroG or GrapheneOS or even a Fairphone; get a Framework; use Fediverse; get off those services and sail the high seas where needed; use Linux+Firefox if you aren't already; touch grass; and if someone tries to force you into extracting rent — refuse it.

Persist.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Amazing trip back into time, thank you for the nostalgia trip.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (5 replies)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Microsoft’s total web browser monopoly.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

[This comment has been deleted by an automated system]

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)

God bless the hackers, crackers, reverse engineers, and disrupters. Pray they help keep you free of too much pain.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you reduce your consumption corporations can't screw you over that much. Also it's good for the environment.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

true. why should I need a facebook account? I only need to talk to the few dozen people I know, not to the millions or billions of mostly bot accounts.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Wouldn't google's DRM be considered a monopoly? Not in the US, but don't they have laws and regulations against this type of stuff?

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Nah, because it will be considered a service that people choose to integrate with, and you won't be required to use Google's authentication service

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes, also pretty sure Meta will roll their own offering too since the main appeal is for advertisers.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So my choice is gonna be between Google or Meta?

Real Sophie’s Choice there huh? 🫠

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

At that point, other than at work, I will stop using the internet.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Even if it was, it likely wouldn't be enforced, since it's overseen by lawmakers and judges who have only the barest sense of what a webpage even is.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Completely agree in substance and spirit, but not on this framing of everything as about ownership. Personally I don't want to "own" data any more than I want to own a car. What I want is control, rights, privacy and personal freedom. The ownership obsession seems to me a red herring that just proves how much we've been taken in by consumer capitalism.

Forgive the rant. I agree with you on the substance.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥everything is fine🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

There's a phone company out of Europe, Fairphone, that's striving to fix these problems. I can't really say if their specs are up to par or not (fwiw their newest phone can do 5G), but you can repair you phone with their Spare Parts offerings, like the selfie camera, earpiece, rear cameras, speaker, USB-C port, display, back cover, battery, etc.

Issue is that you can't buy it in the US or elsewhere, but there are some tricks where you can get it into the US/CA by going with Clove or Reship.

Phone looks to work best on T-Mobile networks, so AT&T or Verizon users might see terrible performance.

So, not panacea, but a decent solution for those willing to go down that path.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

Me in the 90s.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Compatibility issues? Unspecified root problems? Nope, I ain't feeling'em.

Tech knowledge is required to use smaller services? Just a fraction of what was required before, just about enough to operate in digital world in general.

Cars are becoming SaaS? Whatever brings them closer to extinction works for me.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Things aren't as bleak in Europe :)

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Unfortunately, we still suffer a bit. A lot of internet content originates from USA and the rest of America. And the big tech companies, who control a lot of the market standards, are also from there.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Agreed, I'm currently moving my digital life to free software to escape that bullshit.

While everything else seems to be caught up in enshittification, free software is constantly improving.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I undertand this feeling. I have a group of friends which use Messenger as a main chat app and they refuse to stop using it for convenience, but most of the features they label as convenience are the exact thing that are wrong with it. Many other platforms, despite not being perfect, have the same/more features and are better implemented.

Even if you transfer to a new and better platform, the big companies don't let go easily. They buy those new platforms and change them or just nuke them. If they can't, they will use ways to detect who is using alternative platforms and alienate them. It is just like the Phoebus cartel, which controlled progress to maximize profit. They are not against you or progress, they are against anything which reduces their potential monetary value.

I disagree when you mention subscriptions as a bad thing. Subscriptions have existed since forever, and work well when you deal with a service, for example paying a subscription to a video creator you like, or maintenance costs of hardware you use.

But not everything is grim. I have seen a lot of new FLOSS projects appearing everywhere, and people are becoming more aware of the many alternatives. I've even seen non programmers using ChatGPT (or equivalent) to create their own self-hosted platforms, showing that even those not techinal people are able to contribute to the general community.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I didn't understand when everyone jumped on Facebook messenger instead of just using their phone's built in text messaging and I still don't. It's like people crave spying or something...

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They consider revenue streams more important than one-off payment.

So everything becomes service and we are left in this non-ownership economy where we own nothing.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Seriously watch this video posted here: https://lemmy.world/post/2126185

If Yann is correct about how AI will work in the VERY near future, google is already dead. It has no future Personal offline open source assistant AI is near at hand. This will kill the entire digital ecosystem as it stands now. If you understand this, contextually, all the BS right now is from desperate venture capitalists trying to get as much return on investment as possible.

Get a machine with at least 16GB of VRAM on a GPU and start leaning to mess with FOSS AI. This is the next digital age.

Privacy is something we control. You don't actually NEED the conveniences. You vote with your wallet. As far as devices, I love Graphene, but I also live without anything that only comes from the proprietary google framework like the Play store. I only use open source Android apps. The Play store is not Android, it is proprietary google garbage.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's the #enshitification of everything. I listened to an interview with SAG-AFTRA by a new podcaster trying to survive and just when they start talking about the investors and products admitting to trying to build out till October when actors and writers start getting evicted... then some Amazon streaming services ad. And it happened again towards the end. And no warning or apology or mindfulness from the podcaster. So so depressing. The interview was great and happy to have heard it. Wish I could get access to information unpolluted by advertisement and capitalism. Thank goodness for the fediverse.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You don’t have the option of having a phone with decent specs and replaceable parts

For now it is indeed an issue. It may get better as EU imposes easily replaceable batteries for instance.

You have to have really good knowledge in tech to have private services that are on par with what the big companies offer

Well yes, because technology is complicated by nature. BigTech inject billions in making stuff simple and UX pleasant precisely to attract layman customers. Privacy-focused tech companies have less money, put a lot of effort in privacy tech, and are less mature UX-wise than classic bigTech. Customers also want more privacy, but have a hard time paying for anything. At some point the customer has to come to terms with coherence. Vote with your wallet.

You have to put up with annoying compatibility issues if you install a custom ROM on your android phone

No you don’t necessarily. LineageOS works perfectly on my Oneplus 6T.

You cannot escape apps preventing you from using them if you root your device

Yes you can. Magisk Root + Universal SafetyNet Fix v2.4.0-MOD_1.2 (by kdrag0n, modded by Displax) + editing the deny list properly.

Cars are becoming SaaS bullcrap

Use public transport when possible. Rent cars when really not possible. Problem solved.

Everything is going for a subscription model in general

I understand it’s frustrating. At the same time we either expect a constant stream of updates, or everything-IT requires regular updating if only for security purposes. Companies have employees to pay. Do you work for free?

[–] xiao 5 points 1 year ago

Strangely your post makes me think of the SciFi book written by Alain Damasio - Les Furtifs. 😬

Not sure that it has been translated in English...

load more comments
view more: next ›