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I love how mad this is making people.
He's the Pope. Obviously he's going to want peace. What the hell do people expect? He doesn't care if land is Russian or Ukrainian as long as people stop dying. The geopolitics of the situation are simply not part of his ideology.
Interesting that he chooses to say the people having a genocide done on them need to surrender (which they've literally done and been shot anyway btw) and not the perpetrators of said genocide needing to stop.
Probably because the Pope is and always has been a piece of shit
Interesting that he chooses to say the people having a genocide done on them need to surrender
Huh he didnt say this about the people in Gaza, what are you talking about?
Actually he did say the same for Gaza: https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2024-03/pope-francis-angelus-appeal-ceasefire-gaza-war-israel-palestine.html
War crimes like the forcible transfer of children (i.e. genocide) are for the ICJ to deal with. As a religious leader his prerogative is to reduce suffering and death, by whatever means necessary.
More importantly, Russia can keep this up far longer than Ukraine and he doesn't want us to fight to the last Ukrainian.
Right, a smaller country can never successfully resist a larger one. That's why Vietnam has been under US occupation (or was it French? I can never remember for some reason) all these years since Ho Cho Minh wisely surrendered to spare his people's lives.
A smaller neighbor is vastly different. Vietnam was on the other side of the planet for America and halfway for France. You can't ignore that.
Well, if Pope is called "piece of shit" for calling to negotiations to prevent more people dying, then who are you, who's ok with war going on? Entire shit?
He didn't say negotiations, he said surrender
This only makes sense under the assumption that if the land becomes Russian, the dying will stop. And that's not guaranteed. Dropping down from dying to violence - that's probably guaranteed to occur for a while if the land becomes Russian.
Why wouldn't the dying stop? Russia is going to need as many workers as possible to rebuild and make up for military losses, on top of the preexisting population stagnation that was already dwindling their workforce. The worst case scenario imo is population transfer, and that's not good, but I don't see Russia being able or willing to waste a population boost from Ukraine.
Because Ukrainians wouldn't just stop resisting.
Precisely. Even if the active war stops with Russia taking over Ukraine as a whole or in part, there would need to be repression against the non-conformant Ukrainian population. The fact that the Ukranians haven't folded a long time ago and keep fighting means there's a lot of people that would not be happy with Russian government and therefore they should be expected to resist if that happens anyway. Therefore the obvious need for repression. Therefore the continuation of dying and violence under hose conditions.
Yip. Russia would not stop until total control of occupied regions and surroundings was obtained.
Yeah, he's old and didn't use the happiest words.. but the Vatican clarified he didn't mean "unconditional surrender" and instead only meant "negotiate a peace deal".
AFAIU (and also AFAIC - "as far as I care") It's not entirely clear yet if the Pope suggests that Ukraine should give up territory in exchange for peace (and what about reparations?) or if he just means "be good people and make peace" (which would be much more in line with how he usually talks). I don't think whatever the Pope thinks will really be of much consequence given how geopolitically relevant this war is ("The Pope? How many divisions has he got?")
This whole news/argument serves as great marketing for the TV program where the the interview will be broadcasted (which I'd assume is not unintentional)
The pope can get fucked.
I wonder if he would say the same thing if Russia attacked the Vatican.
At the rate this war is going, he might have to.