this post was submitted on 27 Jan 2024
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Mozilla is unhappy because the use of browser engines other than WebKit will be restricted to the EU, forcing them to develop two different apps.

For an independent browser like Firefox, managing two browsers is not easy, so it can be forgiven that this could be seen as almost harassment.

Also, the fact that the use of browser engines other than WebKit is limited to iOS means that the use of WebKit is still forced on iPadOS, which also increases the effort for Mozilla.

Source: https://iphonewired.com/news/746093/

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[–] [email protected] 166 points 6 months ago (4 children)

I'm fucking enraged man. I hope we can regulate these assholes.

[–] [email protected] 71 points 6 months ago (6 children)

There is a very easy solution. Don't buy apple.

[–] [email protected] 113 points 6 months ago (5 children)

That's not a solution. It's a way for you to avoid the problem. It does nothing to help the millions of people who are already deeply invested in the Apple ecosystem.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 6 months ago (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Not a solution.

This not only has a time and effort cost attached to it but selling your used hardware to buy new hardware is always a bad value proposition.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 6 months ago (40 children)
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[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago (3 children)

That is the solution though, always has been. Vote with your wallet.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Yeah, let's ignore the entire history of labor, environmental, safety, and product regulations, and believe everything is the way it is because of our dogmatic free market feefees.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago (1 children)
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[–] Jumuta 5 points 6 months ago (5 children)

voting with your wallet doesn't work when most people would buy anyway (whether it's because they're ignorant, trapped to do so, etc)

The minority of people that actually care and know about privacy and software freedom is just a tiny statistic in Apple's perspective, so voting with your wallet doesn't work.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

People should fully own the computers they buy, regardless of which company they buy from.

This means root access and a replacable primary bootloader, let alone just being able to install apps not on a curated market (what Apple calls sideloading). macOS and Windows both manage to allow root access, and so do certain Android devices (and obviously other OSs as well). Replacable primary bootloaders are more rare, though, especially in ARM devices due to efuse-based secure boot in the CPU that is impossible to turn off. There's only one phone I can think of that allows for replacing the primary bootloader (Shift 6mq).

We shouldn't allow for artificial restrictions placed by corporations on devices they sell, because as we have seen time and time again, companies copy each others' restrictions, especially Apple. Same goes with game consoles, IoT devices, Smart TVs, etc. And before you mention the potential for piracy, DRM is an artificial restriction placed by corporations, and should also be removed from devices.

Anything less means that you don't own the device that you paid for.

Apple is clearly attempting to comply with the EU DMA in bad faith so that they can maintain as much control over their users and app developers as possible.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

I don't. Many people do. To protect their very clear monopolistic goals, we need to protect consumers from this stuff.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 6 months ago (1 children)

And that's coming from someone who has "applelover" in their username. They fucked up big time by pissing off even their most loyal fans.

(/j)

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago

Honestly, I don't know how many normies this will upset. Pretty much only techies follow this and the people being annoyed by it might just blame the app developer and not Apple. Time will tell

[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 months ago

I mean, this is basically malicious compliance. They did everything in their power to follow the letter but eschew the spirit of the law. Let’s hope the EU has teeth and keeps applying pressure.

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[–] [email protected] 89 points 6 months ago (4 children)

I like how just about everyone I who’s looked at this is basically like, “fuck apple”.

There are a few fanboys, but they are way less common than usual.

I’m hoping Apple picks up on this and reverses course.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 6 months ago (4 children)

They won't care, they have the consumerist crowd locked down. The crowd that buys dozens of Stanley Tumblers so they have one that matches any outfit. There might be more of us who care than there used to be, but the average iPhone buyer doesn't care and Apple knows it.

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[–] [email protected] 51 points 6 months ago (6 children)

My wife has an iPad and one of the things I hate the most is that you can't install adblock extensions into Firefox on it like you can on Android. Which is a thing that has made using the browser on the phone wayyyy more enjoyable.

[–] deranger 13 points 6 months ago (3 children)

I use DNS level blocking for blocking ads on iOS devices.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yeah not comparable. There is so much cosmetic blocking and also many sites will just load ads from the same domain.

[–] HumanPerson 5 points 6 months ago

Like YouTube iirc.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

The Orion browser for iOS/iPadOS supports both Firefox and Chromium extensions, however, the support is quite buggy and limited. Nonetheless, a valiant effort by Orion devs.

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 6 months ago

Apple always had been painfull for any third party devs. Also Vivaldi worked several years to create a browser which works in this iPhone thing, and now, after it's release, Apple admits Chromium.

[–] Jumuta 32 points 6 months ago

genuinely fuck Apple for stealing khtml and driving it into the ground

[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 months ago (11 children)

Why not stopping developing apps for Apple systems? Fuck them.

[–] [email protected] 84 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Mozilla doesn't have the sort of leverage to make an impact by abandoning apple devices. Firefox has an incredibly low market share and this could push people to other browsers. People tend to use the same browser for stuff like bookmark and password syncing, so abandoning ios could have larger consequences.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Yeah I understand, but if Apple is fucking up with our development, not only for Firefox, for any developer that makes apps for phones... why keep following their abusive rules? When I say "stopping developing apps for Apple" I mean, any developer that dislikes the abusive rules of Apple and fees. If we abandon the system, the iOS users will need to move to Android or other systems that are more friendly for developers.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The issue is that larger companies which could have an impact (Netflix, google, Meta) already have special deals in place that bypass these rules

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

https://newsroom.spotify.com/2024-01-26/apples-proposed-changes-reject-the-goals-of-the-dma/

And it comes down to a fundamental question: Will the European Commission follow through with its intent to right-size Apple’s abuse of power? Or will the DMA be nice in theory, but in practice, have no substantive meaning for most developers?

From Spotify.

Update: https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/29/24054943/microsoft-apple-app-store-dma-rule-change-response Xbox (Microsoft)

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 6 months ago

The fun life of an Apple customer.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 6 months ago (6 children)

how do I de-apple my iPhone?

[–] [email protected] 19 points 6 months ago

Don't purchase & start using it from the first place. Save yourself plenty of resources. Focus on something else productive & valuable.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago

You could try to jailbreak but honestly you're better off not having an iPhone

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

Direct a heat gun at the area right below the camera for 10min or so. The demon should be gone.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

You can't. At least not like you can on normal phones. There is no way to unlock the bootloader to my knowledge

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago (1 children)

This is the best summary I could come up with:


Apple’s new rules in the European Union mean browsers like Firefox can finally use their own engines on iOS.

Although this may seem like a welcome change, Mozilla spokesperson Damiano DeMonte tells The Verge it’s “extremely disappointed” with the way things turned out.

“We are still reviewing the technical details but are extremely disappointed with Apple’s proposed plan to restrict the newly-announced BrowserEngineKit to EU-specific apps,” DeMonte says.

In iOS 17.4, Apple will no longer force browsers in the EU to use WebKit, the underlying engine that powers Safari.

“Apple’s proposals fail to give consumers viable choices by making it as painful as possible for others to provide competitive alternatives to Safari,” DeMonte adds.

Epic CEO Tim Sweeney called the new terms a “horror show,” while Spotify said the changes are a “farce.” Apple’s guidelines are still pending approval by the EU Commission.


The original article contains 285 words, the summary contains 142 words. Saved 50%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I really hope the EU gives them the middle finger and tells them to apply the law in good faith, not like this.

Still can't do much for markets outside the EU though. Countries like the US, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Australia should implement similar laws. That would force Apple's hand.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago

Their lack of choice is why I'll never buy Apple products.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago

Apple does not care and will never care about open source other than the bits it has to care about because they're a part of Darwin, their core.

They're a company offering a particular "experience" and open source products do not fit into that model well at all. I use apple phones because I'm partially blind and for a very long time the accessibility story on Android was a screaming nightmare (I'm told it's got better) but I have no illusions that they're anything other than a profit seeking MegaCorp with all that implies.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

Apple, Google, Microsoft all worthy of a massive boycott.

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